# Could Volkswagen executives be charged under RICO? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919 "2015-10-28T00:27:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/1 "2015-10-28T00:27:10Z")
Either for the major fraud involved, or for the people who died due to the increased emissions? [Volkswagen Diesel Scandal 2015: Emissions Likely Killed Up To 94 People In The US, Analysis Shows](http://www.ibtimes.com/volkswagen-diesel-scandal-2015-emissions-likely-killed-94-people-us-analysis-shows-2125805) ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/2 "2015-10-28T20:48:22Z")
I know this isn’t GD, but I find it difficult to believe that the evidence in regards to deaths will hold up in court. All of those sources are explicitly biased. And looking over [Wiki’s RICO entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act) none of the major examples they list have anything to do with cases of industrial polluting, they’re all dealing with illegal money-making schemes. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/3 "2015-10-28T20:55:02Z")
I doubt that anyone who had anything to do with it is under US jurisdiction. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/4 "2015-10-28T21:50:26Z")
Presuming the CEO of VW didn’t do any of the actual illegal coding, then he didn’t “material participate” in the crime. However, if he _ordered_ these actions be done, then he could be prosecuted under RICO. At least that’s my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2015, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/5 "2015-10-28T22:09:57Z")
That’s the point though isn’t it; this wasn’t illegal? In terms of tort, how do you prove a direct causal link to an individuals death … ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/6 "2015-10-29T14:00:59Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s the point though isn’t it; this wasn’t illegal? > > In terms of tort, how do you prove a direct causal link to an individuals death … I’m pretty jaded when it comes to RICO. RICO stands for “Racketeer Influenced & Corrupt Organizations.” It was intended to allow the feds to shut down Mob-controlled businesses. Trying to extend it to cover generically-shady activities is a slipperly slope. The charge of “wire fraud” has already fallen down that slope. There was a time when a wire fraud charge meant something, but these days it’s basically the corporate version of a disorderly conduct charge. “We need to charge your company with _something_, so if you plead guilty to Wire Fraud, we’ll move on to working out the penalty so we can put this thing to rest.” ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/7 "2015-10-29T14:55:44Z")
In order for RICO act to be invoked the crime involved has to be racketeering. Racketeering is defined as being one of 35 crimes which the mafia were traditionally involved in such as murder, extortion, drug dealing, counterfeiting, human trafficking, or weapons dealing. Conspiring to defeat emissions standards is not racketeering so the RICO statutes could not be invoked. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/8 "2015-10-29T15:00:25Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > That’s the point though isn’t it; this wasn’t illegal? > > In terms of tort, how do you prove a direct causal link to an individuals death … I’m not sure about that. Many states have laws that make tampering with the emission systems illegal. I could certainly see an argument that what was done was tampering. Whether you could prove a direct link to deaths is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/9 "2015-10-29T15:02:40Z")
Couldn’t it also be criminal fraud? Customers bought those cars thinking they were clean, and that might have been part of the decision to buy one. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/10 "2015-10-29T16:18:26Z")
They are trying to make something stick in the UK, but from a different angle: > **[Volkswagen may have to foot bill for fall in resale value of cars](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/11962989/Volkswagen-may-have-to-foot-bill-for-fall-in-resale-value-of-cars.html)** > > Patrick McLoughlin, the Transport Secretary, says that Volkswagen 'will have to address' the falling resale value of cars after the emissions scandal ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/11 "2015-10-30T02:30:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > In order for RICO act to be invoked the crime involved has to be racketeering. Racketeering is defined as being one of 35 crimes which the mafia were traditionally involved in such as murder, extortion, drug dealing, counterfeiting, human trafficking, or weapons dealing. Conspiring to defeat emissions standards is not racketeering so the RICO statutes could not be invoked. Fraud is one of the predicate offenses enumerated in RICO, so I think RICO charges could be brought. However, it’s more likely it’ll just be a large fine and a promise not to do it anymore. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2015, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-volkswagen-executives-be-charged-under-rico/735919/12 "2015-10-30T08:25:16Z")
Well, lawyers are going to make money at least: > [@](#): > > The plaintiffs claim VW committed fraud by concealment, breached contracts through the sale of the defeat device vehicles, breached warranties, and unjustly enriched itself. It also asserts the company’s conduct meets the threshold of a racketeering influenced and corrupt organization, or Rico, claim. > > The lawsuit asks for injunctive relief through a recall or free vehicle replacement, as well as unspecified damages. > **[Volkswagen faces potential class-action lawsuits over emissions scandal](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/oct/15/volkswagen-faces-potential-class-action-lawsuits-over-emissions-scandal)** > > Lawsuits say VW misled over claims of low emissions and high mileage: ‘Put simply, they lied and continued to lie over a period of years’