# Could we clone a Neaderthal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 29, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209 "2009-03-29T19:54:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/1 "2009-03-29T19:54:07Z")
I was looking back over some of my old posts, trying to find a link that was posted for me ages ago, when I noticed [in this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=486457) that we are analysing Neanderthal DNA. Do we have enough to produce a clone? Can we do it? How many individuals DNA do we have? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/2 "2009-03-29T20:30:18Z")
We have a heck of a lot more H. sapiens DNA lying around, and nobody’s confident in our ability to clone one of those yet, either. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/3 "2009-03-29T20:33:27Z")
Even with perfect DNA its still impossible to clone a dead animal right now. For instance, an ibex that went extinct in 2000 is still unclonable for a variety of reasons like the limits of cloning tech and the lack of a viable surrogate mother/egg. > **[National Geographic](https://www.nationalgeographic.com/)** > > Explore National Geographic. A world leader in geography, cartography and exploration. There have been attempts to clone the Thalycine and they even have dead samples in formaldehyde from 1920, but even those samples dont have good enough DNA to even get to the level of that ibex linked above. Neanderthal DNA is no where near that quality and probably never will be. A full living viable neanderthal clone is the stuff of science fiction, for now at least. ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/4 "2009-03-29T22:19:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We have a heck of a lot more H. sapiens DNA lying around, and nobody’s confident in our ability to clone one of those yet, either. Well, yes, but we’ve got other ways to make H. sapiens, so it’s much less urgent. I’ve made two myself, and I found the whole thing very enjoyable and not in any way difficult. (My wife’s portion of the process was a bit harder, I understand.) But H. neanderthalensis is gone unless we can figure this out … ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/5 "2009-03-29T22:35:34Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > A full living viable neanderthal clone is the stuff of science fiction, for now at least. Then how do you explain our former president? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/6 "2009-03-29T23:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, yes, but we’ve got other ways to make H. sapiens, so it’s much less urgent. Cloning Neanderthals isn’t urgent, either. Any DNA samples we have of them are already tens of thousands of years old; another century while we refine the technology won’t make any difference. ---
**Author:** ![Laudenum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@Laudenum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laudenum)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/7 "2009-03-30T00:20:10Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Then how do you explain our former president? AFAIK Neanderthals were quite intelligent, and buried their dead. I don’t think thats quite the insult that you thought it was. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/8 "2009-03-30T01:16:54Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > AFAIK Neanderthals were quite intelligent, and buried their dead. > I don’t think thats quite the insult that you thought it was. My apologies. Never meant to insult our relatives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/9 "2009-03-30T03:01:28Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > AFAIK Neanderthals were quite intelligent, and buried their dead. > I don’t think thats quite the insult that you thought it was. They might have even been smarter then us. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/10 "2009-03-30T08:53:09Z")
I know you guys are just taking jabs at our former president, but Neanderthal intelligence is an interesting subject. The idea that Neanderthals were hunched lumbering idiots came mostly from an artist’s impression of what one particular individual looked like, and it turned out that individual Neanderthal had arthritis and possibly a bunch of other health problems that resulted in him being hunched over. The reality is that Neanderthals made tools very similar to H. Sapien tools, they buried their dead the same way that H. Sapien did (indicating a complex culture and religion), and they even made artwork similar to H. Sapien. Another interesting fact is the Neanderthal brain was actually bigger than ours. That said, though, when you look at their tools and artwork and such, while it is very similar to that made by H. Sapien, the stuff made by H. Sapien is just a little more complex and a little more refined. Even though their brain was physically bigger, they don’t appear to have been quite as smart as us. As for reproducing a Neanderthal, it would be easier to breed Neanderthal traits from modern humans than it would be to clone a true Neanderthal, although our society would never allow this type of selective breeding program to be implemented. They are however using this technique fairly successfully to bring back Aurochs, a type of cattle that went extinct in the 1600’s. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/11 "2009-03-30T09:41:11Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Then how do you explain our former president? I didn’t know neanderthals had master’s degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/12 "2009-03-30T13:57:57Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > The idea that Neanderthals were hunched lumbering idiots came mostly from an artist’s impression of what one particular individual looked like, and it turned out that individual Neanderthal had arthritis and possibly a bunch of other health problems that resulted in him being hunched over. So people assumed Neanderthals were idiots just because they thought they had spinal problems? And nobody even \*questioned \*this? (BTW, it’s Homo _sapiens_, not “sapien”. Just because a word ends in “s” doesn’t make it a plural.) ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/13 "2009-03-30T14:08:34Z")
No need, I’ll be glad to loan them my brothers. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/14 "2009-03-30T14:30:20Z")
> [@Walloon](#): > > I didn’t know neanderthals had master’s degrees. You really ought to visit Lascaux. There’s a fascinating doctoral thesis written on one wall entitled _Rock, Something, Something: The Evolution of Game Theory_. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/15 "2009-03-30T15:23:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You really ought to visit Lascaux. There’s a fascinating doctoral thesis written on one wall entitled _Rock, Something, Something: The Evolution of Game Theory_. Lascaux was painted by H. sapiens, not neanderthals. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/16 "2009-03-30T15:26:49Z")
No problem. Just ask one of the stars of those insurance-company ads for a DNA swab. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/17 "2009-03-30T17:03:26Z")
> [@](#): > > (BTW, it’s Homo sapiens, not “sapien”. Just because a word ends in “s” doesn’t make it a plural.) Indeed. The ending -ens, in Latin, is roughly equivalent to -ing in English. So “Homo sapiens” is “thinking man”, and “Homo sapien” would be “thinkin man” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/18 "2009-03-30T17:16:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Indeed. The ending -ens, in Latin, is roughly equivalent to -ing in English. So “Homo sapiens” is “thinking man”, and “Homo sapien” would be “thinkin man” Sapiens is also the plural form of the noun _sapiens_, though- which itself means wise men. > [@](#): > > Lascaux was painted by H. sapiens, not neanderthals. I had hoped that the “doctoral thesis cave painting” bit kind of advertised the fact that it was a joke, but it seems I may need to be more explicit in future. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/19 "2009-03-30T19:03:55Z")
> [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](#): > > (BTW, it’s Homo _sapiens_, not “sapien”. Just because a word ends in “s” doesn’t make it a plural.) :smack: D’oh! I’ve been making this mistake for a LONG time. Guess I wasn’t thinkin. ---
**Author:** ![JR\_Brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JR\_Brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JR_Brown)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209/20 "2009-03-30T19:14:08Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Even with perfect DNA its still impossible to clone a dead animal right now. Nope. Viable clones have been produced from mouse carcasses that had been frozen for [over 15 years](http://www.pnas.org/content/105/45/17318.abstract). Now admittedly these specimens were still in much better condition than something that had been formalin-fixed (which does a lot of damage to the DNA), and infinitely better than something that had been stuck in a glacier for 10,000 years. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-clone-a-neaderthal/491209.md?page=2)