# Could we detect our civilisation on Mars? Could we hide ourselves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 27, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785 "2012-08-27T03:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/1 "2012-08-27T03:58:48Z")
Inspired by this comic: [http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr\_m8k73tLBh41rx3bp7o1\_1280.jpg](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8k73tLBh41rx3bp7o1_1280.jpg) A better way to phrase the question is: if Mars were inhabited by a civilisation as advanced as ours, what would we need to detect it? The naked eye? Backyard telescopes? Observatories? Orbital telescopes? Landers? The question in reverse: if that civilisation were looking for us, would we be able to conceal our existence? I’m thinking we would need to reduce stray radio waves and maybe hide our satellites, but can they see our cities from Mars? So, is the comic feasible? ---
**Author:** ![FuzzyOgre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@FuzzyOgre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuzzyOgre)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/2 "2012-08-27T04:41:25Z")
Traces of our existence are fading out. We are shifting to a civilization that uses radio waves that attenuate sooner. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/3 "2012-08-27T04:50:52Z")
There are many deserts on earth that would give the impression the planet is uninhabited. A probe could drive around for years and not find life in the Gobi desert. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/4 "2012-08-27T05:10:20Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Backyard telescopes? > > So, is the comic feasible? IANAAA (amateur astronomer) but you’d be able to see lights from large cities on the dark parts of earth with a mid -high range backyard telescope plonked on mars wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/5 "2012-08-27T05:17:53Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > IANAAA (amateur astronomer) but you’d be able to see lights from large cities on the dark parts of earth with a mid -high range backyard telescope plonked on mars wouldn’t you? Would you? From images of the Venus transit, the resolution doesn’t seem high enough to make any features out. Not sure if those are the limits of resolution, though. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/6 "2012-08-27T05:20:06Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Would you? From images of the Venus transit, the resolution doesn’t seem high enough to make any features out. Not sure if those are the limits of resolution, though. [http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/8aug\_mars\_melting.html](http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/8aug_mars_melting.html) Amateur astronomer Thomas Williamson of New Mexico took this picture of Mars on August 1st. He used an 8-inch telescope and a digital web camera. It seems to me you’d be able to see lights from large cities at that resolution, am I wrong? ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/7 "2012-08-27T05:38:34Z")
Hmm, certainly looks like it. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Ayebaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darth_ayebaw/32/9870_2.png) [@Darth\_Ayebaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Ayebaw)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/8 "2012-08-27T06:15:27Z")
If it was advanced as ours, we wouldn’t even need telescopes. We would see their satellites in our sky. Also, even though it may not be intelligent, there’s plenty of life in even the harshest deserts (at least, compared to Mars). You’d need to land by the poles of our planet to have any doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/9 "2012-08-27T12:56:38Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > If it was advanced as ours, we wouldn’t even need telescopes. We would see their satellites in our sky. Their damned rovers would keep running over our feet. ---
**Author:** ![bradministrator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bradministrator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bradministrator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/10 "2012-08-27T14:25:41Z")
This question was asked in an issue of Sky & Telescope a few years ago. I think the answer was that light from a major city on Earth could be seen from Mars in a large amateur telescope, say a reflector with a 18 inch/.5 meter mirror. (this is detection by purely visual observation, of course) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/11 "2012-08-27T14:42:22Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There are many deserts on earth that would give the impression the planet is uninhabited. A probe could drive around for years and not find life in the Gobi desert. No life? Nothing? I find that hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/12 "2012-08-27T19:29:56Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There are many deserts on earth that would give the impression the planet is uninhabited. A probe could drive around for years and not find life in the Gobi desert. Not true at all. The Gobi is teeming with life, both plant and mammal. I don’t think there’s any place on Earth where a probe would fail to find life pretty quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/13 "2012-08-27T20:28:33Z")
> [@Darth\_Ayebaw](#): > > If it was advanced as ours, we wouldn’t even need telescopes. We would see their satellites in our sky. Not necessarily. If they were more advanced than us, those satellites could be invisible for all intents and purposes (we’ve already got fledgling invisibility tech) ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/14 "2012-08-27T21:23:30Z")
The point would stand that if the Martian civilization was as advanced as ours, they’d have the equivalent of a HiRISE camera up in their “Earth Reconnaissance Orbiter” getting extremely high detailed images of the surface of Earth essentially eliminating any doubt as to our existence here. I don’t know what the highest resolution ground telescope images of Mars are, but Hubble has some images of Mars that are in almost as much detail as say, famous pictures of Earth taken from the Moon so they’d definitely be able to detect civilization with their equivalent of the Hubble. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/15 "2012-08-27T22:27:38Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > If they were more advanced than us… You’re fighting the hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/16 "2012-08-28T00:53:23Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > The point would stand that if the Martian civilization was as advanced as ours, they’d have the equivalent of a HiRISE camera up in their “Earth Reconnaissance Orbiter” getting extremely high detailed images of the surface of Earth essentially eliminating any doubt as to our existence here. Just to put a number on it, [the resolution of the HiRISE camera is 30 cm](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Reconnaissance_Orbiter#HiRISE_.28camera.29), or about one foot. (The Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter’s orbit isn’t particularly low, either.) Many, many, many human structures would be visible at that scale. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/17 "2012-08-28T01:13:23Z")
Hmm so I guess mars isn’t likely to have life, unless it’s subterranean. It’d also be pretty hard to conceal ourselves from intelligent life on mars. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/18 "2012-08-28T02:32:59Z")
> [@anson2995](#): > > Not true at all. The Gobi is teeming with life, both plant and mammal. I don’t think there’s any place on Earth where a probe would fail to find life pretty quickly. Antarctica, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/19 "2012-08-28T02:38:32Z")
> [@Arrendajo](#): > > Antarctica, maybe. Penguins. Lots of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2012, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785/20 "2012-08-28T04:49:26Z")
We could all lie down and pretend to be dead, and keep v-e-r-y quiet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-detect-our-civilisation-on-mars-could-we-hide-ourselves/632785.md?page=2)