# Could we have an honor program for non-veterans? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458 "2017-03-31T21:50:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/21 "2017-04-03T16:29:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Well said. As a retired war vet, it is disturbing to me to see every event turned into a patriotic wankfest. The loudest saber rattlers (as always) are those who would never think of putting on a uniform, but “Yeah, let’s go kill those fuckers!” Yessir. I’m not even comfortable describing myself as a war vet. I was a DJ in Tokyo during the first Gulf War. My friend from high school who washed out of boot camp is a member at the American Legion in our town. He is all gung ho and super patriotic and it makes me really uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/22 "2017-04-03T16:51:10Z")
Isn’t this what the Peace Corps is supposed to be? Also the CCC and WPA before it? The great thing about the military is that it (at least used to) take almost everyone. Sure, there was a time they only took men, and nowadays you have to have a high school diploma or GED and a semi-clean record with the law, but it’s not like the local Walmart where they might or might not be hiring, and you’re expected to pay your own housing and own the means of transportation to get there, if you’re lucky enough to get hired in the first place (and you’re lucky enough that the job exists in the first place). With the military, if you are relatively healthy and want it, there’s a job waiting for you. Sure, it’s hard, and you may not like the work, the hours, the uniform, the angry sergeants, etc, but for young people who are willing sacrifice their own comfort, there is a good, full-time, benefits-offering job available, that trains. It is a great relief valve for 19 year old minimum wage earners who suddenly find out they have a family to support. Or people who decide they want to go to college and can’t afford it without GI-bill-type help. Or the skinny inner city kid who wants to escape the gang life. Yes, we need something like that for the disabled, the people with criminal records, the homeless or elderly, the dropouts, and the pacifists. No “honor program” required, just good jobs, training, benefits and probably boarding-house-style food and housing offered to those who can’t find anything better locally. You may have to travel somewhere else to work, but the “corps” will pay for it. Why can’t we do this with infrastructure here in the States? Our army builds roads and bridges in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we don’t have enough money to fix our roads here at home? I don’t buy it. There’s simply not yet a will. Once the Trump-voting working class realizes that the factory and coal mine jobs aren’t coming back, they’ll vote themselves a last-ditch workers organization like this. Seems right in line with the old-school working-class trade-union democratic values. Which makes sense, since FDR did this exact thing in the 30s. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another Great Depression to get us there, though. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/23 "2017-04-03T16:58:55Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I don’t get the “they literally risked death for us”. Iraq and Afghanistan, like Vietnam before that, were unnecessary wars. We threw trillions down the toilet and destabilized an entire region for what? Retribution for 9/11? Nation building? Hint- nation building hasn’t worked yet and never will. Okay, I get that a lot of young people joined the services and were willing to risk their lives for us, but in reality they weren’t risking their lives for us, they risked them for politicians who sent them on a fool’s errand. > > I get that Vietnam veterans weren’t greeted with parades and such and some were actually mistreated. But I think we’re going way overboard with the overcorrection. These guys got the wrong end of the stick and were drafted into a shooting gallery and I’m sorry for those that died and glad for those who returned. But to retroactively lavish endless praise on them is overkill. You elected those politicians who sent those men and women into harms way. It’s not their fault that you sent them on a “fools errand” and it doesn’t make their sacrifice any less real. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/24 "2017-04-03T17:16:49Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > You elected those politicians who sent those men and women into harms way. It’s not their fault that you sent them on a “fools errand” and it doesn’t make their sacrifice any less real. They made themselves available to be sent in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/25 "2017-04-03T17:32:20Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > They made themselves available to be sent in the first place. The subsequent wars were all volunteer, yes; but for Vietnam service, they were probably drafted. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/26 "2017-04-03T17:38:00Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > They made themselves available to be sent in the first place. So you hire someone to do your bidding and then get mad at them because your bidding was unworthy? ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/27 "2017-04-03T19:17:41Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Why can’t we do this with infrastructure here in the States? Our army builds roads and bridges in Iraq and Afghanistan, but we don’t have enough money to fix our roads here at home? I don’t buy it. There’s simply not yet a will. Once the Trump-voting working class realizes that the factory and coal mine jobs aren’t coming back, they’ll vote themselves a last-ditch workers organization like this. Seems right in line with the old-school working-class trade-union democratic values. Which makes sense, since FDR did this exact thing in the 30s. Let’s hope it doesn’t take another Great Depression to get us there, though. I agree completely. You could even make it a hybrid program, so it sucks in defense dollars. Basically, you train each recruit at basic training and then send them to essentially a military-run construction unit. But they will, from then on, not touch a weapon, and exclusively learn and then serve for 4 years doing construction. With special bonuses added to their military pay. And once they finish their service term, they get re-hired and can continue to do construction and infrastructure work. There are efficiency issues, and you would need to train them to use modern techniques and run each unit using modern methods to keep the costs reasonable, but I think it’s doable. And for those who have a war boner, each of these construction soldiers has enough training and weapon handling skills that they could be given additional training and sent into a meat grinder if the need was there. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/28 "2017-04-03T19:22:47Z")
Getting back to the OP, this sounds awfully like a participation medal program. There are plenty of jobs that the government needs fulfilled that aren’t soldier centric, even within the branches of the military. They’re commonly referred to as civil service jobs. Most of these jobs offer competitive salaries and benefits, in some cases even better and more lucrative than their private sector counterparts. What would be the purpose of an honorific program for these jobs? ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/29 "2017-04-03T19:44:35Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > So you hire someone to do your bidding and then get mad at them because your bidding was unworthy? No, it’s more like I signed up to do an immoral job. I can’t be praised for that. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/30 "2017-04-03T19:56:09Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > No, it’s more like I signed up to do an immoral job. I can’t be praised for that. Immoral as decided by who? Roll back time a bit to the Vietnam war. All the credible authorities were saying it was a necessary evil. All the big names - the Pentagon, the Presidency, Congress - for the most part were solidly for the war, or at least not for evading the draft. It would not be unreasonable, in this environment, to believe you were doing your part when you went to the various draft roundups and made sure to be honest about your relative fitness, instead of lying about marginal or non existent medical issues. And similarly, when you went to training, to be gung ho and to do all you could to be a good soldier, and when you were sent to combat, to do your part for your buddies. Now once you saw the pointlessness of firing bullets into the jungle, _maybe_ doubts would begin to arise, but I don’t think the typical soldier felt that way. I knew plenty of people in basic training who were gung ho and chomping at the bit for their change to mow down towel-heads. Keep in mind, to a subculture of the US population, radical muslims are evil. They are savages, they are uncivilized, they smell from wiping their butts with their hand, and pretty much deserve whatever is done to them by soldiers occupying their country. Read Chris Kyle’s autobiography - he basically says as much. My basic training drill sergeant was under the impression that they were all homosexuals, especially taxi drivers. Rule of engagement briefings were basically “blah blah blah - but if you feel threatened, light em up”. There are numerous people who to this day think that during Vietnam, what should have been done was a full scale invasion of the North. Tanks destroying the ammo plants and training facilities would have ended the NVA’s effective resistance, and sending armored units into the cities would force the NVA to leave the jungle to face them, at which point they would have been mowed down by artillery fire and bombing. That what went wrong with Vietnam was not being violent _enough_. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/31 "2017-04-03T22:50:10Z")
Well really serving in the Peace Corps also has its share of dangers. Disease, getting kidnapped, workplace hazards, etc… And hopefully their work might prevent the need for soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/32 "2017-04-03T22:52:58Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Well said. As a retired war vet, it is disturbing to me to see every event turned into a patriotic wankfest. The loudest saber rattlers (as always) are those who would never think of putting on a uniform, but “Yeah, let’s go kill those fuckers!” We were at Seaworld and they had to do this whole “Salute to Veterans” thing where all the veterans (not just US but also our allies - hmm who would that be?) were asked to stand and people were to shake their hands. Personally I think they were just trying to ill time as part of the show since they were not allowing trainers in the water with the Orca anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458/33 "2017-04-03T23:01:44Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Are former Coast Guard members considered veterans? If not, they should be. I know people like to make fun of the Coast Guard, but they deserve a lot of honor and respect. > I have several friends who are Coasties, and they work very hard in dangerous conditions. On the same note - how about members of the FBI, CIA, BATF, Border Patrol, and Drug enforcement which also put their lives on the line for our safety. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-an-honor-program-for-non-veterans/783458.md?page=1)