# Could we have some more "Spalding Gray is dead" threads? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2004, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242 "2004-03-09T04:19:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/41 "2004-03-09T18:58:35Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > In all seriousness, **Eve** – how might someone have been exposed to Spalding Gray in areas of the country with no prominent drama scene? Surely it’s not the height of ignorance to not have heard of this man before his disappearance? Would you consider “Spalding Gray” a household word all over teh U.S.? There are people who don’t watch basketball at all that know who Michael Jordan is … is Spalding Gray’s name like that? He certainly wasn’t a household name in a Tom Cruise way, but he was a well-known film and television actor (his [resume](http://imdb.com/name/nm0336960/)) and his monologues are also available on tape and have been shown on TV. Mostly, he’s been all over the headlines since he disappeared, and has been discussed endlessly (as **Otto** complained) right here on the SD. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/42 "2004-03-09T19:05:00Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Hey, **Otto** , I’m the one who’s supposed to have meltdowns about multiple obit threads! Perhaps you remember my famous Gregory Peck-related tantrum of last summer? I do, but I dismissed at as a Peckadillo. [quote] Now back to the OP: Howcum there aren’t 27 threads on the deaths of Paul Winfield and Frances Dee?! [QUOTE] I didn’t see _any_ for Frances Dee except for your mention in your Paul Winfield thread. I was ignorant of her so trotted over to IMDB to discover that I have seen several of her films but I don’t know that I would recognize her. Winfield has an obit at [advocate.com](http://advocate.com) which talks about his devastation at the death a few years back of his “longtime companion.” I had no idea he was gay. And speaking of gay, I do agree somewhat with the notion that there are too many SSM threads (which doesn’t on its own stop me from participating in them but that’s another story) but as one who’s started several I tend to open a new thread only if there’s some major development like a new jurisdiction issuing licenses or the like. Otherwise I try to find one that’s already open and add my comments there. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/43 "2004-03-09T19:22:18Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Who the fuck is Spalding Gray? > > Never heard of him. I think he invented a type of basketball ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/44 "2004-03-09T19:22:51Z")
Can I open a pit thread on how “there’s too many \_\_\_\_\_ threads” pits, or has that been done to death? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/45 "2004-03-09T19:23:04Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Mostly, he’s been all over the headlines since he disappeared, and has been discussed endlessly (as **Otto** complained) right here on the SD. I mean specifically “how famous was he _nationwide_ before his disappearance.” Yes, I have seen the news coverage and the SDMB threads – so I was familiar with Gray’s disappearance as a story into itself, but not familiar with him as a performer, playwright. For the nonce, let’s disqualify all media attention devoted to Spalding Gray this calendar year. Before 2004, how did he make himself a household name – or even a somewhat recognizable name – outside of the New York-area? I checked him out on [imdb.com](http://imdb.com), and saw that Gray had many character-actor entries, usually playing doctors or professors. Still, I’d quibble with you calling him “well-known” – at least nation-wide. I know a few folks who watch _a lot_ of movies, and consider themselves character-actor aficionados. They probably know of him. But for the non-hobbyist … I don’t know. I also found mention of his monologues. That kind of thing is pretty well unknown around here (Jackson, MS). As an experiment, I’m going to see if any of my local video rental places have a copy of _Gray’s Anatomy_. I’m expecting not, but I might be surprised. Not that any of this diminishes Gray’s death in any way. My point is that it is incorrect to label someone as “ignorant” if they’ve never heard of Spalding Gray. One may be ignorant of Spalding Gray, but that does not make one an all-around ignorant person, lacking in basic cultural knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/46 "2004-03-09T19:28:27Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Right again. Congratulations on the new concept. Yeah well that’s a pretty fucking stupid way to look at things if you ask me. Of course you _are_ technically correct, so feel free to go throw yourself a tea party or something. ---
**Author:** ![robo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@robo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robo99)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/47 "2004-03-09T19:28:34Z")
Someone at AP must have known him. That’s the only reason I can come up with. I’m sure that someone better well-known died on the same day that his body was found but no one at AP knew THAT person. National and international news is all the same. Everything seems to start at AP. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/48 "2004-03-09T19:39:21Z")
> [@robo99](#): > > National and international news is all the same. Everything seems to start at AP. That’s cause journalists are lazy and stupid and just copy the AP without checking facts. If you want to see incompetant journalists at work, you should have caught last night’s Daily Show showing the Martha Stewart fiasco and all the red hankerchief waving. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/49 "2004-03-09T19:43:52Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > I didn’t see _any_ for Frances Dee except for your mention in your Paul Winfield thread. [I started one yesterday](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243865), but it dropped out of sight quicker than the US version of _Coupling_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/50 "2004-03-09T19:52:09Z")
I first learned of Gray in 1994, when some cute girls in my college class rented _Swimming to Cambodia_ and invited me over to watch it with them. I dreaded the movie, frankly. A monologue about an actor’s experiences in Southeast Asia? Oh, how _wholesome_. How _enriching_. I was, of course, captivated by it. Spalding Gray was probably the most brilliant storyteller I’ve ever had the pleasure of listening to: he told stories exactly how I like them, without funny voices or exaggerated rhythms or other ostentatious techniques, but rather as if he were livng entirely in the moment, as if he were figuring out moment by moment exactly which word, which turn of phrase, would capture his thoughts. I got _Gray’s Anatomy_ for my physician father for his birthday, and **burundi** took me to see his live performance of _Morning, Noon, and Night_ in 2001 (or maybe 2002). Rest in peace, Spalding. But **Eve** , who the fuck is Frances Dee? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/51 "2004-03-09T20:44:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Winfield has an obit at [advocate.com](http://advocate.com) which talks about his devastation at the death a few years back of his “longtime companion.” I had no idea he was gay. Better get your gaydar fixed. I read his beads the first time I saw _Wrath of Khan_. As for cultural ignorance and the death of Spalding Gray, there is no need for **World Eater** to be so petulant about the lacunae in his cultural knowledge. So he didn’t know who Spalding Gray was, so what? Now he does. And yes, not knowing something makes you ignorant of it. It doesn’t make you “bad” or intellectually inferior–it just means that you had one less datum before than you do now. We’re all ignorant, just on different subjects. I’m a kickass Trivial Pursuit player–in art, entertainment, history, science, literature, I’m the _maestro di color che sanno_, but I have one Achilles heel—sports trivia. I’m the most ign’ant lummox in the world when it comes to knowing who played in the 1968 Super Bowl, who won the MVP in the World Series in 1982, and so on and so forth. That doesn’t make me a complete ignoramus, just a sports trivia ignoramus. That’s an area in which I am completely backward compared to just about any other American male. Do I let it worry me? No, I just smile knowingly when co-workers talk sports and learn by listening. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/52 "2004-03-09T21:28:51Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > But **Eve** , who the fuck is Frances Dee?Daniel Look and see, she’s Frances Dee Right here on [IMDB](http://imdb.com/name/nm0214168/) She went to bed with her costar, but wed! That gorgeous Frances Dee! Started films in Twenty-nine, In “Little Women” she was fine. Costarred with Coop, You should know her, you goop— She’s poor, dead Frances Dee! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/53 "2004-03-09T21:31:53Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > She’s poor, dead Frances Dee! Hee hee – thanks! And here I was hoping she was related to an alchemist. Hmm . . . the potential for a new musical suggests itself. Grease (of basilisk egg), maybe? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/54 "2004-03-09T22:32:01Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > \ when it comes to knowing who played in the 1968 Super Bowl, who won the MVP in the World Series in 1982, and so on and so forth. 1968 season: Super Bowl III: Jets over heavily-favored Colts. You may remember this game from such Trivial Pursuit questions as "Who said, of Super Bowl III in 1969: ‘We’ll win - I guarantee it.’ " (Joe Namath) World Series, 1982: The last World Series won by my beloved St. Louis Cardinals. MVP: catcher Darrell Porter. [sub]You knew someone was going to do it. ;)[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![percypercy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@percypercy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/percypercy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/55 "2004-03-09T22:59:14Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Well, except not. He was a very well-known writer and actor who’s been in the headlines for the last two months; there are multiple threads about him right here on the Boards, all with links and descriptions of his work. Anyone popping in here to say “who the fuck was he?” is either being ingenuous, lazy or is a complete boob. “A Rick Dees in a Spalding Gray world,” as Homer Simpson once put it. Oddly, before Spalding Gray’s disappearance and now apparent death, I knew more about Rick Dees than Gray himself, having had a brief but passionate affair with “Disco Duck”. -Lil ---
**Author:** ![BurnMeUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@BurnMeUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BurnMeUp)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/56 "2004-03-10T00:50:54Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I mean specifically “how famous was he _nationwide_ before his disappearance.” Yes, I have seen the news coverage and the SDMB threads – so I was familiar with Gray’s disappearance as a story into itself, but not familiar with him as a performer, playwright. > > For the nonce, let’s disqualify all media attention devoted to Spalding Gray this calendar year. Before 2004, how did he make himself a household name – or even a somewhat recognizable name – outside of the New York-area? > > . I spent much of my early adult life in Salt Lake City Utah, a cultural wasteland to be sure and I knew of Spalding. I now live in Seattle many peopl ehere know of him. You have IFC or sundance channel on your Sat dish or cable? they often show Grey’s anatomy, swimming to cambodia or Monster in a box. I have also seen monster in a box on HBO and showtime. He also has several books out. For reference, i am not typically a theatre goer or one who follows the theatre/play scene. So yes, he is known outside of New York and art circles. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/57 "2004-03-10T03:53:36Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > By the way, all you yahoos bragging about not know who Spalding Gray was? Unless you are joking, you might want to Google him before exposing your complete lack of cultural and literary knowledge on a Board devoted to “fighting ignorance.” 1.) Requesting information from those who might know, and who belong to a board devoted to fighting ignorance, as opposed to googling is bragging or being a “yahoo” how? 2.) Not knowing of the ezistance and/or works of ONE solitary playwright is possessing, (in your words), “complete lack of cultural and literary knowledge” because? There ARE other works, playwrights, cultural events…etc. BrUTher. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/58 "2004-03-10T04:53:12Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I mean specifically “how famous was he _nationwide_ before his disappearance.” Yes, I have seen the news coverage and the SDMB threads – so I was familiar with Gray’s disappearance as a story into itself, but not familiar with him as a performer, playwright. > > For the nonce, let’s disqualify all media attention devoted to Spalding Gray this calendar year. Before 2004, how did he make himself a household name – or even a somewhat recognizable name – outside of the New York-area? I don’t think that’s the issue here, though. If Gray’s death had been cut-and-dried, happening at home or in hospital, then I could fully understand people saying, “Who?” on hearing of his death\*. But his _disappearance_ has been in the news for two months, and spawned several threads on this board. I call it _wilful ignorance_ for someone to have been unaware of his disappearance, even if awareness didn’t inspire them to read/watch further to find out why it was newsworthy. If someone didn’t know he was missing, they can’t have been watching/reading the news very closely. God knows there are enough OPs in the Pit declaring "I’m sick of hearing about [current news story]! Which always draw the response “Then change the channel”. Could it be that people really have started changing the channel, and that’s why the two-month vigil for Gray went under their radar? \*I also don’t remember anyone saying “Who?” in any of the Spalding-Gray-is-missing threads. I could have understood that, and wouldn’t have called anyone ignorant for asking the question then. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/59 "2004-03-10T05:40:34Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > 1.) Requesting information from those who might know, and who belong to a board devoted to fighting ignorance, as opposed to googling is bragging or being a “yahoo” how? I think half the battle in the ol’ fight is realizing those times when you can get a quick, fairly complete answer from google as opposed to asking “Who the fuck is Spalding Gray”? (and since the person who said that apologized for the tone, I apologize for dredging this up yet again). How might one realize that? There have been several celebrity death type threads about him (and even if one hasn’t read the threads, they were commented upon in the OP of this very thread, so that alone should be hard to miss), and one might imagine that as a celebrity there will be information about him on google, as opposed to, say, my Aunt Myrtle. In addition, the fact that he has recently died (also as mentioned in this very thread) might lead one to believe that such information that one would find on google would be fairly current because it is, well, newsworthy. I can only assume that people who post to the SDMB have, by default, an internet connection and access to google. And not to let down the side or anything, but frankly I’m a little amazed that Spalding Gray is as famous as he is. It always struck me as one of those situations where Spalding Gray was mostly famous for being Spalding Gray, which is cool and everything, but still leaves me a bit perplexed. I absolutely agree that he’s famous in a rather narrow field, but still, he’s famous enough that it seems a little silly to claim that he’s not really famous, as if all the media coverage has been some sort of sham. ---
**Author:** ![Profane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@Profane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Profane)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2004, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242/60 "2004-03-10T06:54:26Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > I don’t think that’s the issue here, though. If Gray’s death had been cut-and-dried, happening at home or in hospital, then I could fully understand people saying, “Who?” on hearing of his death\*. But his _disappearance_ has been in the news for two months, and spawned several threads on this board. I call it _wilful ignorance_ for someone to have been unaware of his disappearance, even if awareness didn’t inspire them to read/watch further to find out why it was newsworthy. If someone didn’t know he was missing, they can’t have been watching/reading the news very closely. > > God knows there are enough OPs in the Pit declaring "I’m sick of hearing about [current news story]! Which always draw the response “Then change the channel”. Could it be that people really have started changing the channel, and that’s why the two-month vigil for Gray went under their radar? There are those of us who have no interest in the life of celebrities. I don’t watch E!, or read People. Call that willful ignorance if you wish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-have-some-more-spalding-gray-is-dead-threads/233242.md?page=4)