# Could we PLEASE eliminate shaking hands: forever??? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 9, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128 "2020-03-09T01:38:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Teddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ab992/32.png) [@Teddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teddie)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/41 "2020-03-09T23:58:44Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I mean, fine, I guess. But it’s such a normal part of daily interaction to me, that it would be weird not to do so. I have no issue with shaking hands. Same here. 😃 In the UK we’re gonna shake hands as opposed to anything else, although as living for 10 yrs in Sweden we’ll just double kiss & definitely not worry about Covid-19 😷 ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/42 "2020-03-10T00:54:13Z")
We must be slipping - this is post #42 and there has yet to be a “handshake = rape” joke. ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/43 "2020-03-10T01:39:45Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > -[Popular myth that your home is ‘too clean’ has been debunked by health experts](https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/interiors/a28180154/home-clean-myth-debunked/) > > -[You cannot be ‘too clean’ health experts warn, in bid to debunk myths](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/24/cannot-clean-health-experts-warn-bid-debunk-myths/) > > -[Another Study Just Busted The Myth That Too Many Vaccines Overload a Kid’s Immune System](https://www.sciencealert.com/study-refutes-anti-vaccination-myth-vaccines-overwhelm-immune-system) > > -[Prematurity and the Myth of “It’s Good for Their Immune System”](https://handtohold.org/prematurity-and-the-myth-of-its-good-for-their-immune-system/) > > -[Study debunks myth that we’re too clean for our own good](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/study-debunks-myth-that-were-too-clean-for-our-own-good/article4586774/) In all seriousness none of those are that unambiguous. In standard fashion, the headline overstates the details of the articles, which in turn narrow and simplify the actual research for the ones that actually link to it. ETA: When I say “in standard fashion” I only mean the common practice of handling the difficulty of headline writing in general, not suggesting any conspiracy on the issue ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/44 "2020-03-10T03:07:04Z")
**Carol** - I was thinking the same re handshake rape > [@Chronos](#): > > Sure, we could eliminate handshakes. But what species are you proposing we replace humans with? Physical contact is a fundamental part of human socializing, and socializing is a fundamental part of being human. Ah, so Asians are less than human? :rolleyes: I know you didn’t mean it like that, but that was an astonishingly Western-centric thing to say. (Despite the fact that handshaking is becoming more common in Asia) ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/45 "2020-03-10T03:31:57Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I’m in sales and despite the COVID19 hysteria was at a trade show last week and the VERY FIRST thing another sales rep does is come up and shake my hand. > > Then there’s a meeting three days later and guess what everyone started doing: shaking hands! > > It’s bad enough I have to touch something that was on your dick, in your mouth, up your ass, on your wives vagina, in your nose or who knows where but now you insist on passing a potentially lethal virus to me because of this stupid tradition. > > Fortunately a couple events I’m attending are declared to be “handshake free”. Let’s pray the one good thing about this outbreak is that it once and for all eliminates this vile form of greeting and gets replaced with something more sanitary like a bow or a wave. > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk And of course at the trade show not only are people walking up to shake my hand, but at least two mocked me for fist bumping instead. We are doomed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/46 "2020-03-10T03:52:32Z")
Except for the occasional mass-extinction biological bug we might be better off shaking hands. that’s how our immune system keeps it’s virus protection up to date. That and the 5 second rule. But you could always moon-walk your way through a convention wearing gloves. It’s got to have more name recognition than a business card. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/47 "2020-03-10T03:53:03Z")
I hesitate to wade into the “germs are good for you” argument. Clearly, many are very, very bad for us. Hand-washing is GOOD. We should do it more often. Yet this whole idea that avoiding all physical contact with other humans is good for us strikes me as being, well, wrong. I’m not a subscriber to the “hygiene hypothesis.” Yet I can see how our persnickety dread of all “germs” is neither realistic nor helpful. [From CNN:](https://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/03/02/berezow.germs/index.html) > [@](#): > > It also appears that ultra-clean environments may interfere with proper development of the immune system. This controversial, yet compelling, idea is known as the “hygiene hypothesis.” Put simply, the hypothesis states that lack of exposure to bacteria and other infectious agents during childhood may partially be responsible for autoimmune disorders. A growing body of evidence indicates the hypothesis might be correct. > > The idea is rooted in the epidemiological observation that the rate of autoimmune diseases has been increasing in the industrialized world, but not in the developing world. Presumably, this is because of the wide availability of hygienic products in rich countries, which are not available in poor countries. Hence, people in the developing world are exposed to more infectious agents than are people in the industrialized world. [Business Insider](https://www.businessinsider.com/what-is-the-hygiene-hypothesis-2015-8): > [@](#): > > And even for people other than young children, the hygiene hypothesis makes intuitive sense: After all, literally every surface in the world is covered in bacteria. The idea that things can be “perfectly clean” is a myth — humans need bacteria to live. > > “We tend to think of our homes and personal environments as these pristine places, and public ones as dirty and infested with bacteria,” Chris Mason, a Weill Cornell Medical College geneticist and the author of the subway-pathogen study, recently said at a public event in New York. “But you should really think of yourself as a rabbit who gets to hop between two forests.” > > That’s why Mason isn’t afraid to let his own young daughter ride the subway or play in the dirt. > > “I would advise any new parent to roll their child on the floor of the New York subway,” said Mason. I absolutely would NOT have let my kids roll around on the floor of the subway, but they’ve ridden the El without harm. With all due affection, kids are basically walking petrie dishes. And Japan, where people tend to bow instead of shake hands, has had its share of epidemics. Furthermore, we each carry about 3 pounds of bacteria with us every day. The corona virus is a very, very bad thing. But the idea that we’re all going to be healthier if we simply avoid human contact is misguided. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/48 "2020-03-10T04:21:51Z")
The virus is nature’s way of trimming the population. Sometimes it employs hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. The earth is finite. If shaking hands kills ya, it was your turn. Enjoy the voyage. Knowing the the surviving members will have sufficient resources. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/49 "2020-03-10T07:18:18Z")
Of course I shake hands, to ensure the other isn’t carrying a weapon there. That’s the tradition. I especially shake surgeons’ hands because they could have scalpels. Sure, we could just raise and wave our hands as if surrendering, to show our innocence. Or we could thump our chests like Tarzan. But a handshake is so authoritative. Besides, if you’re already infected, why not take a few others with you? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/50 "2020-03-10T10:46:03Z")
I still shake hands and hug my friends who initiate it, but I’ve long avoided shaking hands with strangers. Sometimes I extend my fist, sometimes I feign ignorance to the custom. A few months ago at work I had a woman _aggressively_ stick out her hand wanting to shake. She refused to back down and my refusal to participate was just as strong. Here it is: > [@Is anyone else concerned with this new virus in China that is becoming a bigger problem every day?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-anyone-else-concerned-with-this-new-virus-in-china-that-is-becoming-a-bigger-problem-every-day/846841/222): > > I’ve never been into handshaking, usually offering up a fist bump to someone who wants to shake. Lately I’ve been even more anti-handshaking. Shake my hand and I’m then going to wanna wash my hands. > > So, yesterday I was already in a bad mood when a client at work _aggressively_ wanted to shake. I walk up to her while perusing some paperwork, and she _ **thrusts** _ out her hand, which I pointedly ignore. > > I begin answering the question she needed answered, all the while ignoring the hand, which she _kept rigidly extended_. Eventually she said, “you’re not going to shake my hand?” By now I was kind of pissed off, so I answered, “extra quick on the uptake, today?!” Boyhowdy, was she ever pissed off! ---
**Author:** ![Kovitlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/2bfe46/32.png) [@Kovitlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kovitlac)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/51 "2020-03-10T19:53:50Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Did he continue to do it after you two parted ways or did he do it only to humor you? I honestly have no idea. Haven’t seen him since. Though I like to imagine that he does. Makes me smile. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/52 "2020-03-11T02:12:35Z")
Some of Congress is recommending switching from the archaic handshake to the Vulcan salute. **So Live Long and Prosper.** ������������ ������������ ETA: Sorry link to the news story: [Spock's Vulcan salute as greeting reportedly spreads to Congress - CNET](https://www.cnet.com/news/spocks-vulcan-salute-as-greeting-reportedly-spreads-to-congress/) Emojis: [vulcan](https://emojipedia.org/search/?q=vulcan) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/53 "2020-03-11T02:46:44Z")
I really hope we can end it with this. I’m going to try to eliminate it for myself. Particularly handshakes with strangers. > [@Saturn\_Dreams](#): > > Btw, I hope you’re regularly disinfecting your smartphone, keys, pc mouse and keyboard, etc. No one else but I touches those things. Why should I worry about them in particular? > [@nelliebly](#): > > People are not and never have been the most sanitary of creatures. That doorknob you just touched at the office? Probably pretty germy. Same for the hand sanitizer dispenser, the water faucet you used to wash your hands, the weight machines at your gym, and dozens of other surfaces you touch each day. Over my lifetime we have become more cautious about those things. Doorknobs have become less common anyway. It’s rare to have to put your fingers on a knob and turn it, except for maybe the one door to your residence. We use paper towels to shut off faucets after washing our hands and yo open restroom doors. We wipe down gym equipment before and after use. > [@](#): > > [Human touch can be important for wellbeing](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/201501/skin-hunger-why-you-need-feed-your-hunger-contact). I’m sorry, but this is risible. Handshakes are obligatory in certain formal social situations. They’re not the key to our health. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/54 "2020-03-11T02:53:01Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > … > > No one else but I touches those things. Why should I worry about them in particular? > > … Do you wash your hands after every time you touch anything else before you touch you phone or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/55 "2020-03-11T02:58:42Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > Do you wash your hands after every time you touch anything else before you touch you phone or whatever? Does it matter what those “anything elses” are? Or do you literally mean _anything_? What if I rarely touch anything that other people are likely to touch? ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/56 "2020-03-11T03:39:53Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Does it matter what those “anything elses” are? Or do you literally mean _anything_? > > What if I rarely touch anything that other people are likely to touch? My point is that your phone and whatever is exactly as disgusting as everything else you’ve touched since you last washed your hands. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/57 "2020-03-11T06:41:11Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > You claim this shit all the freaking time, but you never seem to have a cite for it. > > It’s one thing to “exercise one’s immune system”, and it’s quite another to just open yourself up to constant filth and disease. That’s how epidemics got started – people NOT practicing proper hygiene. > > If you don’t think there’s such a thing as “too much exercise”, witness the case of Typhoid Mary. Well, that raises the question of “what constitutes _proper_ hygiene,” doesn’t it? It strikes me that there’s a LOT of real estate between Mary Mallon’s sanitation practices and dousing oneself with Purell every time one allows one’s skin to make physical contact with a surface. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/58 "2020-03-11T07:00:01Z")
Meanwhile, I’ve found my pathway to riches! I’ma buy about a thousand really cheap (I’m talking maybe five bucks a pair) ping pong paddles. And a jigsaw. Then I’ll cut all the paddles into hand shapes, dress them up with features to make them resemble actual hands, and sell them for twenty bucks apiece (possibly more, depending on how much labor is involved in the fabricating process). I may even branch out into hand-paddles with articulated finger joints and opposable thumbs, for people who PREFER to fist-bump. That part of the scheme is down the road a bit, though. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/59 "2020-03-11T11:08:32Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > My point is that your phone and whatever is exactly as disgusting as everything else you’ve touched since you last washed your hands. The question isn’t overall disgustingness. It’s the odds in picking up new microbes from other people. I’m not saying not to clean one’s house keys. But it’s in a different category than another person’s handshake. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2020, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128/60 "2020-03-11T12:25:32Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The immune system works best if it is regularly exercised, Expose yourself often to the mild pathogens circulating in your community, and your immune system will recognize them and be alert to fighting them off. You are probably healthier exactly because you do have regular contact with threats. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > You claim this shit all the freaking time, but you never seem to have a cite for it. Here’s [one](https://www.countryliving.com/uk/homes-interiors/interiors/a28180154/home-clean-myth-debunked/) > [@](#): > > The researchers also discovered that exposure to non-harmful microbes found in animals and the outdoors can help build a ‘healthy microbiome.’ And here’s [another](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/06/24/cannot-clean-health-experts-warn-bid-debunk-myths/) > [@](#): > > But experts from the Royal Society today stressed this is not the case. > > They said people need diverse exposure to microbes that are mostly harmless - such as those children can find playing outdoors - And [this one](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/health/study-debunks-myth-that-were-too-clean-for-our-own-good/article4586774/) > [@](#): > > exposure to microbes is important for regulating our immune systems Yes, those are three of your links. The only potential difference between what jtur88 said and what current science says on the subject is that exposure to disease causing pathogens, dangerous pathogens, is not part of the diverse exposure that is recommended for our immune system. jtur88 did say “mild pathogens”, which I believe puts his statement in line with the current thinking. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-please-eliminate-shaking-hands-forever/849128.md?page=4)