# Could We Produce Power from Hamsters in Wheels? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 21, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454 "2012-03-21T23:21:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JoshuaSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@JoshuaSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoshuaSD)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/1 "2012-03-21T23:21:22Z")
We are in an age when alternate energy sources are being brought forth from every corner. Watching a hamster running full tilt in his little wheel got me thinking. Could a hamster (or other small rodent who likes running in wheels) be used to generate electricity via a generator connected to the wheel? If yes. What is the largest generator a (relatively) lightweight hamster could turn and produce X? amount of power? Given that, how many would be required to power a light bulb, refrigerator, car house etc.? Assuming we are reasonably humane about this, would the care costs outweigh the power production? i.e. Cost of food, cleaning, disposal of waste and of course climate control. I know its not a serious solution but we use animals for so many human needs Im thinking the rodents could start earning their cheese for once. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/2 "2012-03-21T23:27:21Z")
Shirley, you can’t be serious. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/3 "2012-03-21T23:48:23Z")
Just to give you some context, it took a team of 80 human (cycling club) cyclists to provide the power for a house and family of four for a day, with a base load of 10 to 20, and a peak load of more than 40, running 20 minute shifts. And they browned out. You are going to need a lot of hampsters. Si ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/4 "2012-03-21T23:54:08Z")
There’s a message board somewhere on the internet that’s been powering their software with hamsters for quite some time now. I’ll see if I can track it down. Hopefully they will not have finished their war on ignorance before I can find them. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/5 "2012-03-21T23:57:15Z")
> [@JoshuaSD](#): > > Assuming we are reasonably humane about this, would the care costs outweigh the power production? > i.e. Cost of food, cleaning, disposal of waste and of course climate control. Under the basic, bog standard, kiddie in grammar school definition of thermodynamics … no. No animal produces more running energy than it eats. No animal produces more motion – breathing, circulation and running than it eats, and your method doesn’t capture breathing and heart motion. 'Cause if it did the animal would be doing double work, what with inflating its lungs and pushing whatever strap across its chest you’ve rigged. No animal produces more motion, cellular metabolic energy, nerve cell energy than it eats. In fact, even less, some is always wasted as heat. TANSTAAFL ---
**Author:** ![JoshuaSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@JoshuaSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoshuaSD)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/6 "2012-03-22T00:02:25Z")
Serious? No of course not. But sill… As for a lot of hamsters. Well rodents breed like rabbits. (redundant) They don’t need a lot of space. 2 o 3 to a cage. thousands of cages lined up like a file room. In my head there is a “Matrix” like building full of hamsters running and running. Ever watched a hamster run? It makes me laugh every time I think about it. Like I said its not a serious solution but maybe someone with engineering knowledge, a good idea about the types of small generators out there and a little spare time on their hands could come up with a hamster equivalent number to the 80 human cyclists. Im sure we are talking about millions of the little guys. Maybe more. But thats the reason for the operating costs question. Would the electrical costs of air conditioning the building outweigh the power they could produce? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/7 "2012-03-22T00:07:05Z")
I don’t think you’re considering hamster fuel (food). Hamsters need to eat and drink, and that means energy is expended in producing their little pellets and water bottles. It’s sort of like you’re asking why you can’t just plug in a generator to produce all the electricity you want. ---
**Author:** ![JoshuaSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@JoshuaSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoshuaSD)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/8 "2012-03-22T00:13:00Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Under the basic, bog standard, kiddie in grammar school definition of thermodynamics … no. > > No animal produces more running energy than it eats. > > No animal produces more motion – breathing, circulation and running than it eats, and your method doesn’t capture breathing and heart motion. 'Cause if it did the animal would be doing double work, what with inflating its lungs and pushing whatever strap across its chest you’ve rigged. > > No animal produces more motion, cellular metabolic energy, nerve cell energy than it eats. In fact, even less, some is always wasted as heat. > > TANSTAAFL This I know but the cost to feed and care -v- the “market cost” to the user of the electricity. IE I pay “x” amount for electricity from the power company who uses “conventional” methods to produce my power. Like burning coal. If I have a million hamsters generating power with a million generators can I get power from them that would outweigh the cost of caring for them. All this is assuming that there is a generator that a small rodent could even turn. I dont know if that even exists. That would need to be the first question answered. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/9 "2012-03-22T00:23:01Z")
> [@JoshuaSD](#): > > If I have a million hamsters generating power with a million generators can I get power from them that would outweigh the cost of caring for them. Only if you repeal the laws of thermodynamics. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/10 "2012-03-22T00:33:47Z")
What if we exposed the hamsters to radiation and mutated them in a way that would allow them super speed and the ability to photosynthesize at incredible rates? Could we do it then??? Why isn’t anyone working on this? ---
**Author:** ![Baffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dec6dc/32.png) [@Baffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baffle)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/11 "2012-03-22T00:47:07Z")
You also have to feed the hamsters. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/12 "2012-03-22T00:48:34Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > What if we exposed the hamsters to radiation and mutated them in a way that would allow them super speed and the ability to photosynthesize at incredible rates? Could we do it then??? Why isn’t anyone working on this? Wouldn’t it be simpler to bring in a few radioactive spiders to bite the hamsters and give them super powers? ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/13 "2012-03-22T01:40:37Z")
> [@JoshuaSD](#): > > If I have a million hamsters generating power with a million generators can I get power from them that would outweigh the cost of caring for them. No, every hamster produces less energy than the food it consumes. Multiply that by a million and you get a deficit a million times greater. You’re probably better off burning the food directly (and maybe the hamsters, while you’re at it) and using the heat to generate your electricity. > [@](#): > > All this is assuming that there is a generator that a small rodent could even turn. I dont know if that even exists. That would need to be the first question answered. Oh, I’m sure there are such generators. You just hook up a tiny dynamo to the hamster wheel, it can probably generate at least a few milliwatts without giving too much resistance for the rodent to handle. ---
**Author:** ![MetroGnome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e7dd6/32.png) [@MetroGnome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MetroGnome)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/14 "2012-03-22T01:46:12Z")
Here’s the real question: is the original proposed model any more efficient than just burning the hamsters directly as fuel? \*dammit, Heracles beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Twoflower](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twoflower/32/22_2.png) [@Twoflower](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Twoflower)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/15 "2012-03-22T01:47:07Z")
Think of it in terms of “What is the most efficient way to convert _X_ tons of hamster food into _Y_ watts of electricity?” My WAG is that burning it to run a generator would beat feeding it to hamsters to run in a wheel. ETA - I hadn’t even though of burning the hamsters themselves… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/16 "2012-03-22T02:21:36Z")
> [@JoshuaSD](#): > > This I know but the cost to feed and care -v- the “market cost” to the user of the electricity. IE I pay “x” amount for electricity from the power company who uses “conventional” methods to produce my power. Like burning coal. > > If I have a million hamsters generating power with a million generators can I get power from them that would outweigh the cost of caring for them. Wait a minute! You’re all answering the wrong question! As **JoshuaSD** clarifies here, he’s talking about _cost_ not _calories_ ! Taking into account disparities in the market cost of various commodities (direct fuel vs. cost of hamster food and care), the question is at least a legitimate question. I’m sure the answer is still NO, this won’t pan out – but that’s just a WAG. Remember Milo Minderbinder, the character in Catch-22, who bought eggs for three cents each and sold them for two cents each, and still made a profit, by playing the disparities of the international markets and currency exchange rates! We need experts in thermodynamics and hamster husbandry to whip out their slide rules to get to the bottom of this! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/17 "2012-03-22T02:40:07Z")
Uhh, too late: 🙂 > **[Toyota Idea Olympics](https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features-newcars/toyota-idea-olympics/3682)** > > Hampster powered cars?! > [@](#): > > “Hamster Car” – Winner of Dream Car Contest for School and University Students > > Designed to look like a ladybird, this car has windows where a ladybird has spots. More unique is the source of power as the motor is driven by amplifying the electric power generated by hamsters running. ---
**Author:** ![Sethcrzygy86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c2a13f/32.png) [@Sethcrzygy86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sethcrzygy86)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/18 "2012-03-22T03:04:34Z")
But there is no additional cost for food, because you’d only use pets, 6that way they would be on their wheels anyway. The idea being to harness the energy of the wheel currently going unharnessed now. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/19 "2012-03-22T04:43:44Z")
What if you could train guinea pigs to [row a tiny boat?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kXS37clsZw&feature=youtube_gdata_player) ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454/20 "2012-03-22T04:54:04Z")
Another problem that hasn’t been mentioned is that hamsters don’t run all the time (having had them as a child); they are also nocturnal and spend most of the time sleeping (plus doing everything else besides running on the wheel). So you’d have to create artificial day/night cycles for them so they would be staggered out enough to provide continuous power (which also increases the number needed; for example, 4 hours of running a day would need 6 times as many hamsters). Or just use them at night and use solar during the day. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-we-produce-power-from-hamsters-in-wheels/616454.md?page=2)