Could Wikipedia get too big to fail?

The problem with saying that “the government” could fund Wikipedia is determining which government. Most of it (about 11 million of the 14 million articles) isn’t in English, and I don’t know what percentage of editors live in what countries. It certainly isn’t an American project, or British, or Chinese, or any other particular country.

Perhaps a coalition of governments, or even a coalition of universities?

Personally, I’d love to see it funded by coming up with a way to track down all of the vandals and make them pay for it. Yeah, I know that wouldn’t be legal, enforceable, whatever (and the vandals are probably all children anyway), but just think how much better Wikipedia could be if all those hours that went into reversing and correcting vandalism were spent on improving it instead–and all those immature wastes of oxygen that vandalize Wikipedia found something useful to do.

I’m okay with Jay and Silent Bob administering an ass-kicking.

I think things got a bit off track.

I sort of got distracted by the responses, but the reason I brought up the “Star Trek” articles wasn’t because I have a problem with them being on Wikipedia and it wasn’t because I think they make Wikipedia cost more money to run, it also wasn’t because I think they make it harder for people to find information on other, more “academic” topics.

The reason I brought it up is because the discussion is, “Could Wikipedia get too big to fail?” To answer that, we have to consider what is meant by “bigness.” To me, bigness in this context could only mean “article count.”

Well, the thing is, maybe of Wikipedia was a huge repository of original research in areas of public importance could we justify “bailing it out.” In reality, it isn’t.

I’d argue a large portion of Wikipedia’s articles deal with things that do not merit public funding to keep them alive. The comparison with a library is actually not apt. A library is a collection of actual material, Wikipedia is a collection of summaries. Until respected authors, scientists, and others start publishing their original research and their original works on Wikipedia, it will always be just that–a collection of summaries.

I know there are a lot of ardent defenders of Wikipedia who will get mad because I’ve called Wikipedia a collection of summaries. I should quickly state that this isn’t a bad thing, that essentially is exactly what one would expect from an encyclopedia.

I know that teachers today, when they assign a research project or research paper to students, they won’t accept Wikipedia on a works cited page or on the bibliography. Well, aside from a few totally slack-ass teachers, when I was growing up you sure as shit couldn’t cite “reference works.” Meaning you couldn’t cite Encyclopedia Britannica, World Book, Compton’s et cetera. Not because the teacher thought the information in encyclopedias was bad, but because essentially the encyclopedia article was the assignment. A high school or even early-college level research paper is really not much more than summarizing a topic, backing it up with citations, and maybe sometimes drawing some conclusions. Well, that is essentially what an encyclopedia article already does, so to allow that as the citation would mean a lot less work for the student, which would also mean they wouldn’t properly learn how to research from more elaborate secondary sources.

There is a thing I see a lot on the Wikipedia donation forum in which the founder talks about how Wikipedia is the “sum of all human knowledge.” Well, it isn’t, it’s a summary of a large portion of human knowledge. You certainly couldn’t learn calculus, evolutionary biology, organic chemistry, Renaissance history, 19th century British Literature and et al from Wikipedia.

Which is perfectly fine, you couldn’t learn those things from Britannica, World Book, Compton’s et cetera. An encyclopedia doesn’t produce “original” knowledge, it compartmentalizes original knowledge.

If Wikipedia was a repository for tons of original knowledge, then yes it could get too big too fail. Since it isn’t, it never will. Wikipedia’s strongest attributes are its accessibility, how it links readers to more information, and its price (free.)

Something it shares in common with Google, arguably Google is indispensable in sharing human knowledge just like Wikipedia is. Could Google get too big to fail? Probably not, mainly because of how software works, Google could go under and then Microsoft would be happy to move in. If Google went under, it’s also likely another big player in the software industry would buy up the information and rights to use Google’s search algorithms and et cetera–so the public would lose nothing.

It isn’t like when AIG or General Motors goes under, you can’t so easily buy up and keep running a mammoth insurance company or billions of dollars in manufacturing assets. Software and bytes are a lot different in that regard.

If Wikipedia went under, firstly none of the articles would be lost. They are all essentially cached elsewhere, probably by Google, maybe by the Internet Archive, definitely by “copy cat” websites like Answers.com. That is in a “worst case scenario” where Wiki folds and pulls the plug over night. What would quickly happen is some other entity would come up and Wikipedia (maybe with a different name) would reemerge almost instantly. Maybe Microsoft or Sun or Google would take over, and that’d probably be the status quo for a little while until a new non profit emerged (due to obvious bias concerns with a major tech company running something like Wikipedia.) Or, it’s not even unthinkable that some of the big tech companies could all donate equal amounts to a “pool” that would then create a totally independent non-profit entity that would be responsible for its own independent fund raising going forward. Hell, even one billionaire like Paul Allen could set that up, and done correctly it’d quickly not have any association with him and thus not be susceptible to allegations of bias. It’d cost Allen less than some of his individual players cost him in a single season for one of his sports teams.

The proposals I’ve heard were simply to remove “anonymous” editing- ie, require all users to register and get an account. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

I already have a free starting point for research, it’s called Google. I also have better ones through local libraries, also free. If I want something truly high-quality, I can go to a local university library and use resources that are free to anyone who walks in the door. Perhaps 1 time out of 1000 I will have to use some sort of pay service that is open to anyone with $25 a year in order to get something. I don’t think the accuracy problems of Wikipedia are worth dealing with in order to avoid using the other free or nearly-free services.

Also, the fact that one unreproduced study in one journal, which cherry-picked its data and at times MADE UP content of nonexistent Britannica articles, was only able to find that Wikipedia is less inferior to Britannica than previously thought, is if anything a point in my favor. Compare Wikipedia on a level playing field to the entire sum of freely available reference sources not written by 15-year-old anime fans, and it will be no contest even when you don’t worry about stuff that you have to pay for because it’s worth paying for.

Agreed, as many have said it is a nice first look.

Says you.

I OTOH, routinely learn new and advanced (to me) mathematical techniques on wikipedia, and many times I do not need to consult other sources to assist.

Based on my experience with Mathematics articles, and the occasional scientific ones, I have little doubt I would have the same learning experience with other academic topics.

Free is not an advantage - I was just at the local library book sale today. Printed encyclopedias, and of a fairly modern vintage, are now free if you will carry the boxes to your car.

That is a good question, and your suggestion is far from given. There are many search engines and other indexes, whose content and algorithms were once first class and very popular that are all but forgotten. It could and probably will happen to google at some point, given the history of all technology companies. Expect google to have a limited lifetime. Maybe measured in decades, but still limited.

Of course you could buy up and run those companies if you wanted to. The employees are still there, and the management is where the value is, and that is just data, as for google.

The database itself is available for download, anyone can grab it. I haven’t done so recently, so I am not up to date on how often it is updated. But I have done it in the past, not to mirror it, but to do statistical work. So there are more copies around than you could possibly imagine, and google has no knowledge of it, nor could it ever.

No. Like all major OSS projects, it would simply fork. The amazing thing to me is not that that is possible, it is that it hasn’t happened yet. All it would take would be a major credibility hit, or internal political schism. The actual hosting is trivial if you are into that kind of stuff, and zillions of people around the world ARE into that kind of stuff. It doesn’t require spending one cent on software. Only hardware and bandwidth.

Many major OSS projects are funded like that already. People are not working for free.

I think the credibility hit has already happened. Wikipedia peaked in 2005 or 2006. There has been no real progress in getting anyone new to take it seriously since then, and it’s now bleeding off contributors. When Wikipedia went from a startup in 2003 to the buzzword on everyone’s lips within two years, there were all sorts of predictions of it replacing textbooks, being cited seriously in academic and professional settings, releasing print editions, and so on. Everyone thought the several flawed Nature study was a harbinger of more credibility to come. But, looking backwards, that was the high-water mark, and Wikipedia has become less hip and less utopian with every passing month since.

What happened? Basically, the hype died off, people whose jobs depend on getting their facts right were never convinced that anonymous information from the Internet was worth the risk, and the crazies started running the asylum. Wikipedia started on the assumption that only the people in the Internet cutting-edge club would be involved, and it had no way to deal with the invasions of Turkish nationalists, guys who like to show pictures of their dorks to people, and so forth. The purging of all professional pictures was perhaps the biggest mistake, as it makes every article look shabby and ridiculous even on first glance to someone who doesn’t care about the systematic issues, and that can only be blamed on the core “open source” movement people. Colbert taking aim at Wikipedia probably played a role; he will always be a bigger opinion-maker among hipsters than some Linux geeks editing a page on “Crucifixion in Anime.”

Wikipedia has settled into a homeostasis where the animation fans, the fetishists, and the political crazies of all stripes can use it as their playground–their MMORPG where they level up pretending to be encyclopedia editors. The people still there are happy, because that’s what they always wanted, and the rest of the universe is happy that Wikipedia is leaving us alone rather than evangelizing about how free plagiarism of other free websites is going to save the world somehow.

Wikipedia isn’t too big to fail; it’s finally become small enough to be ignored. It will eventually reach the end of its participants’ attention span, just like everything does. We will look back on it in 10 years like we look at Friendster, The Matrix Online, or All Your Base now, and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Ahh ok. Yeah, that sounds fine.

Wikipedia is also free. You are not required to use it, so what’s the problem? You’re upset that people are getting their dodgy info from wikipedia instead of getting their dodgy info from Google? I can click on the icon next to my search field and select wikipedia, but it would be better if I had to go to the library instead? The accuracy problems on wikipedia are not that bad. If you are feeling mislead by wikipedia, then you are using it wrong. For most things wikipedia is just fine. If you have a need of data more precise than wikipedia offers then further research is useful. But if you choose not to use it that’s fine too. Doesn’t really matter. I like that it exists personally.

I don’t think the point of wikipedia is to be the end all be all of reference sources. You seem to be judging it for not being something it’s not intended to be.

You’ve got a weird idea about wikipedia. It has nothing to do with hype it has to do with easy access to information. That it is not totally accurate is irrelevant for most things it is used for. A high school report on Napoleon is not going to suffer for using wikipedia as a reference. If you get away with using it on your dissertation well then you’re in a shitty program, not wikipedia’s fault.

The appeal from Jimbo, currently plastered across the top of every Wikipedia page, is just as Messianic as ever. It seems to think that Wikipedia is going to save the world and transform society. Do you disagree?

It seems like he’s trying to fundraise. Doesn’t really affect me any differently than PBS fundraisers where they tell me how important public television is, when it’s really not important at all.

But hey, that means you use wikipedia if you saw his pleas for funds. :wink:

That being said, I approve of fundraising models. Where people pay what they feel like paying and the product is paid for by the people who like it and use it. It’s a great model, the best one in fact.

Or perhaps we are all so used to it now. We expect it to be there. A bit like the Google search engine.

Just because it isn’t seen as something special doesn’t mean that no-one is using it. Just that there are newer, shinier things to go ooh aah about.

So the people who go to the website to learn about something, and know nothing about it, should write new articles if they aren’t there… :smack: Why didn’t I think of that?

Hi Kelly!

This is, I think, one of Wikipedia’s problems. For most of the major geek stuff, there are dedicated, comprehensive wikis out there. Why not have one stub article with a link to the other wiki? Or build a reciprocal agreement and index the other wiki for search purposes, but don’t host content…

Star Trek is a perfect example. As are Fringe, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, etc.