# Could/would a DEM-majority congress repeal all the GOP damage after the midterms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 15, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571 "2017-12-15T17:44:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/21 "2017-12-16T02:19:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if the Democrats took veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress and impeached their way to President Pelosi, they still couldn’t get Gorsuch out of Garland’s Supreme Court seat. They could eventually put in other just and moral Justices, but that would take time. It’s not “Garland’s” seat. Never was, never will be. #MoveOn ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/22 "2017-12-16T05:21:47Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > In that case you could presumably use reconciliation to repeal the tax cut bill, but I don’t think it would work to re-implement ObamaCare, at least not in its entirety. > . How are they gonna repay all that money? You do know we’re fucked with the GOP tax plan? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/23 "2017-12-16T05:36:30Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > How are they gonna repay all that money? You do know we’re fucked with the GOP tax plan? It’s not clear to me what you’re referring to. Do you mean that the deficit is going to be $31T instead of $30T in 2030 (figures and dates not exact) or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/24 "2017-12-16T05:53:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not “Garland’s” seat. Never was, never will be. #MoveOn No, but it was Obama’s seat to fill, and it was illegally stolen. We will not forget. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/25 "2017-12-16T05:55:58Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > No, but it was Obama’s seat to fill, and it was illegally stolen. We will not forget. Suppose for a moment that Ginsburg had died in 2008, and Bush nominated a centrist moderate to replace her. Do you think Democrats would have allowed the Supreme Court to move to the right in that fashion? (Yes, I know, the Republicans didn’t even give Garland a hearing, which they should have. But if they did hear him out, and simply voted his confirmation down, then that would have simply resulted in the same outcome, practically speaking.) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/26 "2017-12-16T06:13:14Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > No, but it was Obama’s seat to fill, and it was illegally stolen. We will not forget. “Illegally”? You sure about that? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/27 "2017-12-16T18:02:21Z")
The Dem donor class loves the tax bill, so if you’re counting on Dems to roll it back you may be waiting awhile. They let most of the Bush tax cuts stay permanent, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/28 "2017-12-16T18:36:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It’s not clear to me what you’re referring to. Do you mean that the deficit is going to be $31T instead of $30T in 2030 (figures and dates not exact) or something like that? Yes, a massive increase in the deficit. The tax cut is borrowed money. It is currently 20T, the cut will add 1-1.5T a 5% or more increase. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/29 "2017-12-16T19:17:16Z")
A 5% increase doesn’t really square with my definition of “massive” in most cases, but obviously YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/30 "2017-12-16T19:28:41Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A 5% increase doesn’t really square with my definition of “massive” in most cases, but obviously YMMV. Out of curiosity, will you be for extending the middle class tax cuts as they expire? If not, then the tax cut is only a very temporary thing for you, and you will be paying higher taxes in just a few short years. If so, that 1.5 trillion deficit does not reflect the deficits that would be incurred by extending the tax cuts further. In order to extend them, that’ll add a bit more trillions on. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/31 "2017-12-16T20:09:42Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Out of curiosity, will you be for extending the middle class tax cuts as they expire? Yes. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If not, then the tax cut is only a very temporary thing for you, and you will be paying higher taxes in just a few short years. I haven’t checked lately, but I suspect I’m bordering more on being a filthy rich than middle class, depending on how it’s defined. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If so, that 1.5 trillion deficit does not reflect the deficits that would be incurred by extending the tax cuts further. In order to extend them, that’ll add a bit more trillions on. Yes, extending the tax cuts in future years will mean a reduction in government revenues in those future years. I would prefer to see that paired with spending reductions, but I am skeptical it will happen. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/32 "2017-12-16T20:16:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes. > I haven’t checked lately, but I suspect I’m bordering more on being a filthy rich than middle class, depending on how it’s defined. Ah, so you are in the “job creator” class. How many jobs will you be creating with this tax cut? > [@](#): > > Yes, extending the tax cuts in future years will mean a reduction in government revenues in those future years. I would prefer to see that paired with spending reductions, but I am skeptical it will happen. What spending reductions are you willing to see? Medicare and SSN make up a huge portion of it, military makes up much of the rest. Other domestic spending is pennies compared to those. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/33 "2017-12-16T21:45:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even if the Democrats took veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress and impeached their way to President Pelosi, they still couldn’t get Gorsuch out of Garland’s Supreme Court seat. They could eventually put in other just and moral Justices, but that would take time. Yeah, but at least the Gorsuch appointment didn’t really shift the Court further right – it just took away an opportunity to shift it left. I worry a lot about what happens if Kennedy resigns/dies, or Ginsburg dies (she surely won’t resign while Trump is President). If the Dems retake the Senate in 2018, that’s a huge bit of insurance. I know, the question was about “undoing the damage”. But I think the answer is, you can never entirely undo the damage done by _any_ bad administration – you can only hope to come out ahead in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/34 "2017-12-16T21:49:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Ah, so you are in the “job creator” class. How many jobs will you be creating with this tax cut? I don’t own my own business, so none directly. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > What spending reductions are you willing to see? Medicare and SSN make up a huge portion of it, military makes up much of the rest. Other domestic spending is pennies compared to those. I’d be willing to see some across-the-board spending reductions. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/35 "2017-12-16T21:52:32Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > … I worry a lot about what happens if Kennedy resigns/dies, or Ginsburg dies (she surely won’t resign while Trump is President). … Why does no one ever talk about Stephen Breyer in these discussions? That dude is 79. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/36 "2017-12-16T21:52:51Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The Dem donor class loves the tax bill, so if you’re counting on Dems to roll it back you may be waiting awhile. They let most of the Bush tax cuts stay permanent, too. In 2012 Obama repealed the tax cuts for couples making more than 450k a year, or individuals making more than 400k a year. Taxes went up for them. > **[American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012 | Provisions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Taxpayer_Relief_Act_of_2012#Provisions)** > > 1.For individuals with taxable income of $400,000 per year or less ($450,000 for a married couple on a joint tax return, both thresholds to be indexed for inflation after 2013), the tax rates for income, capital gains, and dividends remained at their 2003-2012 levels, instead of reverting to the higher rates from the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. | > 2.For individuals with taxable income over the $400,000/$450,000 thresholds: > The top marginal tax rate on income of 39.6%, provided for u In all, ... So what is the issue? In 2012 Obama extended the tax reforms for all but the top 1% of income earners. Obama did let most of the Bush tax cuts stay permanent, but only for people earning less than 400-450k a year in household income. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/37 "2017-12-16T22:55:08Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t own my own business, so none directly. Yeah, that seems to be the thing. Everyone I know that owns a business and hires employees isn’t even close to filthy rich. We probably would hire people if our taxes were cut, as otherwise, we get to do the work ourselves. If I could afford to pay someone else to do some of the work that I do, that’d be great. Of course, as a small business owner who has created over a dozen jobs, I am not seeing a bit of this tax cut, in fact, it appears as though my taxes will go up, making it harder for me to make ends meet, much less hire more employees. Good to know that the filthy rich who do not contribute to job creation, as well as corporations that are cutting jobs and sending them out of the country are getting a tax cut though. It does show where the priorities are. Just remember that whenever the republicans talk about “job creation”, they are blatantly lying right to your face. These tax cuts will not create a single job. > [@](#): > > I’d be willing to see some across-the-board spending reductions. So, cuts to social security and medicare then? I actually agree, as I will never see any benefits from them. Military, sure, we’d really be fine with our military like a quarter or less the size and expense it is today. But those won’t be what is cut, it will be more programs aimed at helping actual american citizens that are cut, in order to make room for further tax cuts to those who will not use them to expand the american economy. Anything specific you have in mind, or just “across the board spending reductions”? How do you really see that playing out? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/38 "2017-12-16T23:11:02Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … These tax cuts will not create a single job. … I don’t think we can confidently be that absolute. I suspect they’ll spur some economic activity and therefore “create jobs”. I doubt it’ll be as clean-cut as “yeah, we hired Bob from Accounting with the savings from the tax cut, so +1 job”. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > So, cuts to social security and medicare then? I actually agree, as I will never see any benefits from them. Military, sure, we’d really be fine with our military like a quarter or less the size and expense it is today. > > But those won’t be what is cut, it will be more programs aimed at helping actual american citizens that are cut, in order to make room for further tax cuts to those who will not use them to expand the american economy. > > Anything specific you have in mind, or just “across the board spending reductions”? > How do you really see that playing out? If it were up to me, I’d take a chainsaw to the federal budget. It’d probably end up at about half of what it is today, with most of what’s left paying for the military and covering the winding-down of SS and Medicare/aid. But it’s not up to me. Realistically, I don’t think Congress will ever cut spending in any significant way, at least not in my lifetime. All the hand-wringing and wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth over the last round (the “sequester”) weren’t even really “cuts”, just growing-less-quickly. All the concern now that this tax bill will lead to drastic “cuts” in the future sounds like political theater to me. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/39 "2017-12-16T23:27:56Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think we can confidently be that absolute. I suspect they’ll spur some economic activity and therefore “create jobs”. I doubt it’ll be as clean-cut as “yeah, we hired Bob from Accounting with the savings from the tax cut, so +1 job”. No business has ever hired someone because they had money to hire someone, they have only hired people because they had work that needed to be done. I don’t see this tax cut spurring much if any economic activity, certainly not enough to create enough demand to make businesses hire. There will be job growth, because there has been job growth for the last 8 years, and I don’t think this tax cut will destroy that, but it certainly cannot take credit for jobs created unless job growth increases. > [@](#): > > If it were up to me, I’d take a chainsaw to the federal budget. It’d probably end up at about half of what it is today, with most of what’s left paying for the military and covering the winding-down of SS and Medicare/aid. But it’s not up to me. > > Realistically, I don’t think Congress will ever cut spending in any significant way, at least not in my lifetime. All the hand-wringing and wailing-and-gnashing-of-teeth over the last round (the “sequester”) weren’t even really “cuts”, just growing-less-quickly. > > All the concern now that this tax bill will lead to drastic “cuts” in the future sounds like political theater to me. Cuts, increased taxes, or increased deficits. Those are the options. Sounds like you aren’t a big fan of taxes going back up, and you seem to feel that there will be no cuts, so deficits it is then. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571/40 "2017-12-17T00:02:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … Cuts, increased taxes, or increased deficits. Those are the options. Sounds like you aren’t a big fan of taxes going back up, and you seem to feel that there will be no cuts, so deficits it is then. Not my preference, but I suspect the most likely outcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-would-a-dem-majority-congress-repeal-all-the-gop-damage-after-the-midterms/804571.md?page=3)