# Could you be friends with someone in a group marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 5, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684 "2010-09-05T14:44:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/201 "2010-09-11T02:24:57Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Why does my feminist wife agree with me then? > > Clearly she’s one of us women who are incapable of standing up to manly wiles. You know, like the women who choose to be in poly relationships. > > **Dio** , you seem to be assuming that all women who are in poly relationships are broken and/or deluded into thinking the men they’re in a relationship with love them. Just because _you_ wouldn’t be able to love more than one woman at once, it doesn’t mean that no other man can - do you generalise from your own abilities about everything? (I realise you might, in fact, do this, so it’s a genuine question - if you do, there’s even less point than I first thought in this conversation.) > > What would it take to convince you that there are perfectly mentally healthy women in poly relationships with men who love them? Empirical, scientific evidence. Not anecdotes on a message board. > [@](#): > > Because they do exist, on this board, no less. You’ve heard from them. You’ve heard from men in poly relationships who love the women they’re in relationships with. Are you calling them all liars? Delusional? Unable to know their own minds and feelings? Let’s just say I’m skeptical. I think that many of them are probably deluded, while others are just cynical manipulators. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/202 "2010-09-11T02:29:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@nicole1912](#): > > > > What would it take to convince you that there are perfectly mentally healthy women in poly relationships with men who love them? > > Empirical, scientific evbdience. Not anecdotes on a message board. > > > [@](#): > > > > Because they do exist, on this board, no less. You’ve heard from them. You’ve heard from men in poly relationships who love the women they’re in relationships with. Are you calling them all liars? Delusional? Unable to know their own minds and feelings? > > Let’s just say I’m skeptical. I think that many of them are probably deluded, while others are just cynical manipulators. What kind of empirical evidence for feelings can you get? I ask this in all seriousness - surely, by definition, you can only ever have self-reported evidence for feelings and love, no? What empirical evidence could you provide that you love your wife and that she loves you? ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/203 "2010-09-11T02:29:57Z")
Gloria Steinem, an anti-sex, anti-porn, transphobic feminist. All around a great, progressive gal. Yeah, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/204 "2010-09-11T02:33:00Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > Empirical, scientific evbdience. Not anecdotes on a message board. > > > > Let’s just say I’m skeptical. I think that many of them are probably deluded, while others are just cynical manipulators. > > What kind of empirical evidence for feelings can you get? I ask this in all seriousness - surely, by definition, you can only ever have self-reported evidence for feelings and love, no? What empirical evidence could you provide that you love your wife and that she loves you? Neurological studies of what’s going on with brain chemistry. They’ve done plenty with regular pair bonding. It’s all just brain chemistry. There’s nothing mystical or elusive about it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/205 "2010-09-11T02:36:23Z")
> [@Peeta\_Mellark](#): > > Gloria Steinem, an anti-sex, anti-porn, transphobic feminist. All around a great, progressive gal. Yeah, that makes sense. I didn’t know she was trans-phobic. I didn’t mean that my wife was literally a Gloria Steinem acolyte, only that she tends towards that kind of 70’s style feminism. My wife definitely thinks that pr0n is evil (and attempts to argue with her about it gave not been productive for me), but she’s very pro-GBLT. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/206 "2010-09-11T02:40:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Peeta\_Mellark](#): > > > > Gloria Steinem, an anti-sex, anti-porn, transphobic feminist. All around a great, progressive gal. Yeah, that makes sense. > > I didn’t know she was trans-phobic. > > I didn’t mean that my wife was literally a Gloria Steinem acolyte, only that she tends towards that kind of 70’s style feminism. My wife definitely thinks that pr0n is evil (and attempts to argue with her about it gave not been productive for me), but she’s very pro-GBLT. That’s fair. So the forum is called In My Humble _Opinion_. You have as much a right to yours as anybody else. My parents and sister are deeply troubled by the fact that I’m gay, but their opinion matters little so long as they aren’t judgmental or pushy. If your line is you couldn’t be friends with someone in an open marriage, that’s your line. It’s the reasoning you used I disagree with, not your right to your point of view. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/207 "2010-09-11T02:49:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes. She’s like an old school, Gloria Steinem feminist. If I was a sexist, she wouldn’t be married to me. That has to be the most dubious appeal to authority I’ve ever seen. Especially since you have to realize we don’t actually \*know \*your wife. Which doesn’t really matter anyway : she could be Andrea Dworkin herself (in which case, eww, dude. Poly’s one thing, necrophilia ? Uncool.) and her opinion of you still wouldn’t invalidate the sexist nature of things you have actually said to us, black on white, right here. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/208 "2010-09-11T02:56:54Z")
I’m confident I haven’t said anything sexist. Those kinds of accusations are just poisoning the well. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/209 "2010-09-11T02:57:05Z")
Maybe it got lost during the Dio show, but where is the ice cream and cake that was promised? ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/210 "2010-09-11T02:59:44Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Maybe it got lost during the Dio show, but where is the ice cream and cake that was promised? I just noticed that. I think ice cream and cake are an excellent breakfast. **Skald** , your cake delivery minions are slacking. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/211 "2010-09-11T03:03:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m confident I haven’t said anything sexist. Wait. Really? You don’t think that your underlying assumption that women lack the same sexual agency and are capable of the same sexual desires for multiple partners as men is at all sexist? Not even a little bit? Not to mention your blanket assertion that “men are pigs” which is misandrist, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/212 "2010-09-11T05:50:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m confident I haven’t said anything sexist. Clap your hands if you believe ! 😃 > [@](#): > > Those kinds of accusations are just poisoning the well. The well was pretty fouled up once you asserted any person who didn’t subscribe to your own lifestyle choices was either a scumbag or a delusional trainwreck and you wouldn’t believe anybody who told you different, especially if they were in fact involved in the very alternate lifestyle you dump on so enthusiastically. Once those ground rules are established there isn’t much room for debate, is there ? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/213 "2010-09-11T07:19:33Z")
There’s no such thing as a group marriage. It’s the beginning of a commune or some other social group that people on the internet will spend hours trying to define. Not my cup of tea. Not interested in being a 5th wheel. Does not fit in with my monogamous circle of friends. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/214 "2010-09-11T08:17:39Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes. She’s like an old school, Gloria Steinem feminist. If I was a sexist, she wouldn’t be married to me. So what? _You_ think you’re a feminist, and yet the position you’ve taken in this thread is explicitly sexist. Why should your wife be any different? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/215 "2010-09-11T15:21:39Z")
I don’t think I’m a feminist, I’m just married to one, and no, I haven’t said anything sexist. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/216 "2010-09-11T15:31:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think I’m a feminist, I’m just married to one, and no, I haven’t said anything sexist. So, you don’t think that “men are pigs” is a misandrist statement? And you don’t consider your assertion that women in poly relationships are incapable of rationally choosing to be there, unlike the men in said relationships, to be at all misogynist? Your world must be a very strange place. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/217 "2010-09-11T15:33:58Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > I don’t think I’m a feminist, I’m just married to one, and no, I haven’t said anything sexist. > > So, you don’t think that “men are pigs” is a misandrist statement? I am a man, so no. > [@](#): > > And you don’t consider your assertion that women in poly relationships are incapable of rationally choosing to be there I didn’t say this. I wish people would quit fabricating things I never said. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/218 "2010-09-11T15:41:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@nicole1912](#): > > > > So, you don’t think that “men are pigs” is a misandrist statement? > > I am a man, so no. You can still be sexist as a man, just as a woman can be. You can be racist, whether you’re black or white. Being part of the group you’re being derogatory about doesn’t make it more true, or less sexist. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@nicole1912](#): > > > > And you don’t consider your assertion that women in poly relationships are incapable of rationally choosing to be there > > I didn’t say this. I wish people would quit fabricating things I never said. No, you’re right. You said: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [ It’s commitment-phobic, self-centered men men exploiting women who are incest surivors, basically. That’s what all this “swinger” and “polyamorous” horseshit boils down to at the end of the day. Scumbag men taking advantage of emotionally fucked up women. The inference that “emotionally fucked up women” who are exploited incest survivors would be incapable of rational consent was mine. But I don’t think it’s an unreasonable paraphrase of your contributions to the thread so far. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/219 "2010-09-11T15:56:37Z")
I didn’t say they weren’t capable of consent. That is not a reasonable paraphrase at all. People who choose to shoot smack are capable of making an informed choice to do it. That doesn’t make them healthy for doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Dunkelheit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dunkelheit/32/248_2.png) [@Dunkelheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunkelheit)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/220 "2010-09-11T18:50:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see how it’s sexist to object to the sexual exploitation of women. I do believe that most, if not all of them would prefer monogamy (unless they are bisexual), and that they go along with it to please men. Heterosexual non-monogamist here, for the record. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684.md?page=12)