# Could you be friends with someone in a group marriage? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 5, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684 "2010-09-05T14:44:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/141 "2010-09-10T19:36:37Z")
Heterosexism, my ass. I’m saying that men are pigs. That’s what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/142 "2010-09-10T19:37:47Z")
Well, I, for one, do not have a spiral penis. ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/143 "2010-09-10T19:40:00Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Well, I, for one, do not have a spiral penis. But if you did, would you be more or less popular in a group marriage? ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/144 "2010-09-10T19:46:36Z")
> [@nicole1912](#): > > But if you did, would you be more or less popular in a group marriage? Depends on if he was threaded compatibly with their cervices, I figure. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/145 "2010-09-10T19:54:12Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > duration and requires constant maintenance. > > The norm is serial monogamy. I don’t know how you define “short in duration,” but many humans pair bond for life (though serial monogamy is more typical). I also don’t know what you mean by “constant maintenance.” I’ve been with my wife for over 20 years, and it’s never been an effort to stay together. I’m quoting research papers, man. Do you know what “pair bonding” means? It has a specific neurological component. While I wouldn’t be surprised if you and your wife have sustained such for a long period of time, constantly renewing it, it’s not necessarily biologically required that be the case. Note also that many of the most important physical actions for renewing pair bonding (eating together, shared grooming, etc) are practically de rigeur in marriages. No one said it had to be difficult–just that it had to be done for the specific neurochemical processes of “pair bonding” to remain active. > [@](#): > > Incidentally, this subtle sneering at monogamy is one of the things that really turns people off about people who claim to be polyamorous. If you really want respect and acceptance, you can start by by dropping this attitude (and I see it all the time from self-proclaimed polys) monogamous bonding isn’t real, or that you are somehow more advanced and clear-headed than they are. I’ve seen langauge (on this board) accusing monogomous people of “enslaving” or “trying to own” each other. Don’t expect to get respect if you aren’t willing to give it. You’re reading WAAAY too much into my statements, if you think I’m sneering at the relationship choices my parents and many of my loved ones have made. There’s no sneering in the discussion of the biological realities behind long-term relationship stability, unless you put it there yourself. You’re debating me here, not “all the time from self-proclaimed polys”. I’m not holding you responsible for, Britney Spears’ or Levi Johnston’s “pair bonding” choices. Now I’m waiting for you to pony up ANY academic cites that humans pair bond on any unreinforced duration longer than the 12-28 months I’m familiar with, and/or ANY academic cites that humans are limited to a single ongoing pair bond. You made the claims, you back 'em. Appeal to popularity is also not acceptable, thanks in advance. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Heterosexism, my ass. I’m saying that men are pigs. That’s what I’m saying. Speak for yourself, buddy. And we’ve re-entered **The Dio Zone** , where every behavior that can be even tangentially related to his daughter’s future or present sexual activity automatically turns off his ability to think clearly–and for the record THAT is what sneering looks like coming from me, since you seem to have trouble with it upthread. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/146 "2010-09-10T19:59:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t see how it’s sexist to object to the sexual exploitation of women. I do believe that most, if not all of them would prefer monogamy (unless they are bisexual), and that they go along with it to please men. Just for good measure, let’s see a cite on this, too. My wife, for one, would disagree–and I’m pretty sure she could beat the living hell out of both of us put together if either of us suggested that she was doing something that far out of character merely to please me. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/147 "2010-09-10T20:05:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Heterosexism, my ass. I’m saying that men are pigs. That’s what I’m saying. Pigs with the strong minds to control weak willed women? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/148 "2010-09-10T20:05:30Z")
If all men are pigs and women are easily victimized, how do monogamous relationships work out? Why wouldn’t any relationship between a man and a woman fall apart or end with the woman getting screwed over? ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/149 "2010-09-10T20:07:20Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > If all men are pigs and women are easily victimized, how do monogamous relationships work out? Why wouldn’t any relationship between a man and a woman fall apart or end with the woman getting screwed over? Maybe in **Diogenes** ’ world, it’s only exploitation if she’s out-numbered. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/150 "2010-09-10T20:17:50Z")
**Dio** , if a single woman is in a polyandrous relationship, why can it not be that _she_ is exploiting _the men_? ---
**Author:** ![nicole1912](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9de0a6/32.png) [@nicole1912](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicole1912)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/151 "2010-09-10T20:23:59Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Dio** , if a single woman is in a polyandrous relationship, why can it not be that _she_ is exploiting _the men_? Because men are pigs, and women are unable to resist their male wiles and think for themselves, making their own independent decisions about who they’d like to sleep with. In a completely non-sexist way. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/152 "2010-09-10T20:24:28Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Dio** , if a single woman is in a polyandrous relationship, why can it not be that _she_ is exploiting _the men_? Hahahahaaaa! Silly Skald. Women don’t have same big strong brains that men have to control others. Women have docile, easily exploited brains, to be used by pig men. So see, you question is really quite ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/153 "2010-09-10T20:29:23Z")
Yes, obviously a woman in a polyandrous relationship is actually being _ganged up on_ by the men. They’re too lazy to have multiple women, so decided to just get one and share. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/154 "2010-09-10T20:37:00Z")
**Dio** , do you at least _realize_ that your opinions on this subject (and quite a few related ones) are practically neo-Victorian-meets-Second-Wave-Feminism? It’s like you subscribe to the Katherine MacKinnon idea that all (heterosexual) sex is rape. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/155 "2010-09-10T21:13:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > **Dio** , do you at least _realize_ that your opinions on this subject (and quite a few related ones) are practically neo-Victorian-meets-Second-Wave-Feminism? It’s like you subscribe to the Katherine MacKinnon idea that all (heterosexual) sex is rape. Actually, I don’t think Katherine MacKinnon ever said that. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/156 "2010-09-10T21:19:27Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > [@jayjay](#): > > > > **Dio** , do you at least _realize_ that your opinions on this subject (and quite a few related ones) are practically neo-Victorian-meets-Second-Wave-Feminism? It’s like you subscribe to the Katherine MacKinnon idea that all (heterosexual) sex is rape. > > Actually, I don’t think Katherine MacKinnon ever said that. **jayjay** is thinking of Andrea Dworkin, who worked with MacKinnon and who wrote in her book _Intercourse_ that “violation is synonymous with intercourse.” But she said that interpreting that as meaning “heterosexual sex = rape” was an error. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/157 "2010-09-10T21:31:57Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > > Actually, I don’t think Katherine MacKinnon ever said that. > > **jayjay** is thinking of Andrea Dworkin, who worked with MacKinnon and who wrote in her book _Intercourse_ that “violation is synonymous with intercourse.” But she said that interpreting that as meaning “heterosexual sex = rape” was an error. You are correct, sir. It was an interesting point she was trying to make, but it was unfortunately widely misread and misquoted. In some cases, the mangled version came to be embraced. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/158 "2010-09-10T21:51:50Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > The norm is serial monogamy. I don’t know how you define “short in duration,” but many humans pair bond for life (though serial monogamy is more typical). I also don’t know what you mean by “constant maintenance.” I’ve been with my wife for over 20 years, and it’s never been an effort to stay together. > > I’m quoting research papers, man. You’ve quoted nothing pertaining to this fantasy notion of “group marriage.” Just about polygamy. > [@](#): > > Do you know what “pair bonding” means? It has a specific neurological component. Yes, I know what it means. Of course it has a neurogical component. My whole point is that I don’t buy that this neurological process extends to mutually reciprical groups. I’m calling bullshit in that. While I wouldn’t be surprised if you and your wife have sustained such for a long period of time, constantly renewing it, it’s not necessarily biologically required that be the case. [/quote] No one said it had to be difficult–just that it had to be done for the specific neurochemical processes of “pair bonding” to remain active. > [@](#): > > Now I’m waiting for you to pony up ANY academic cites that humans pair bond on any unreinforced duration longer than the 12-28 months I’m familiar with, and/or ANY academic cites that humans are limited to a single ongoing pair bond. You made the claims, you back 'em. Appeal to popularity is also not acceptable, thanks in advance I never made eitrher one of these claims (cute the way slip that little word a"unreinforced" in there), so I have no reason to cite them. What I would like to see is the slightest bit of evdience that humans can bond in mutually reciprocal groups. The fact that humans bond in pairs is too obvious and well known to take cite requests seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/159 "2010-09-10T21:52:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That does not agree with my research. Are you saying that Woodie, Hamadryad, Ishtar, Galahad, Ira, Tamara, Hilda, Deety, Zeb, Jake, Maureen, Minerva, Mike, Athena, Laz, Lor, Castor, Pollux, Richard, and Justin all died in vain? The kids in your neighbourhood had the fruitiest names. [QUOTE=Diogenes The Cynic] They can use the same methodology they use to investugate the brain chemistry in mongamous bonding. [/QUOTE] What methodology, and who are they ? IOW : dude, where’s my cite ? > [@](#): > > Heterosexism, my ass. I’m saying that men are pigs. That’s what I’m saying. Are your daddy issues empirical data, then ? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2010, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684/160 "2010-09-10T21:55:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > > > That does not agree with my research. Are you saying that Woodie, Hamadryad, Ishtar, Galahad, Ira, Tamara, Hilda, Deety, Zeb, Jake, Maureen, Minerva, Mike, Athena, Laz, Lor, Castor, Pollux, Richard, and Justin all died in vain? > > The kids in your neighbourhood had the fruitiest names. That’s why I dissected them! Well, that and to make sure no one came after me to get my continua device, which I stole fair and square. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-be-friends-with-someone-in-a-group-marriage/552684.md?page=9)