Oh, and Jeffery–if you said I was your favorite artist you get an A. The test was actually a test of your artistic sense. Well done! 
I’m not suggesting a fragmented deity, Gaudere, just one who interacts with different people differingly. Consider that in framing a response to me, you would write it differently than one to Libertarian, and one to Sake Samurai would be phrased differently than to either of us. And Glitch would get yet a fourth “facet” of Gaudere. Yet it would be one integral Gaudere expressing herself in four different ways, for the benefit/communication of four different people.
Further, communication is always a two-way street, even in a single message. One person has to express him/herself clearly, and the other has to read/listen clearly, for exchange of information to work between them.
As applied to God, unless he sets himself up to supervene our free will (and he seems loath to do this, Pharaoh’s hard heart to the side), then we are quite capable of not listening – even when we suppose ourselves to be listening intently. To vary the metaphor, we may be looking in the wrong direction to see what he is writing in large letters for us to read.
Too, that annoying “Father knows best” adage may have some truth to it. Consider how much growth has happened to how many of us, just as a result of this thread: you, me, Glitch, Lib., Jeffery, Adam, etc. For that situation to come about, Glitch had to post his story, which presupposes that he endured what he has been through, and which has made him who he is. Net result is positive, but at severe cost to Glitch, for the moment. I will not presume to answer for him, but I have one question to him: Glitch, if you had been aware, all those years ago, that going through the spiritual valley you have traveled would benefit other people as it has, would you have willingly done so?
I don’t know what Glitch will answer to that. But here’s the kicker: in my worldview, at least, God does. Already. And did back then.
On that note…
I’ve just spent a fascinating two hours reading this thread. Being a long time Atheist/Agnostic in a Christian culture, I have deep interest in the topic. As I read, I was deeply touched by Glitch’s experiences and other’s responses to them. With all due respect, perhaps my own experiences might be of interest or use to others.
I seem to be in the minority, as I pretty much “backed into” Atheism.
My family are mostly devout Christians of the “love your neighbor” school. They are, without exeption, intelligent, tolerant, loving people, sincere in their faith and committed to demonstrating their love not by exhorting others to believe as they do, but by sharing their gifts and their energy for joy in this world. They embody the best of joy, love, forgiveness and humility as the teachings of Jesus represent. I admire them deeply.
My early religious experiences are somewhat fragmented. As an infant, I was baptized in the Catholic Church. After my parents divorce, I attended Episcopal Church for a couple of years. At seven, I attended Quaker school, and my mother became a practicing Quaker, and, naturally, I was exposed to the practice and theology/philosophy myself.
I continued to practice Quakerism through my adolescence and young adulthood. Around the age of eighteen, I stopped attending Meeting (mostly for social reasons), and didn’t give much thought to religion until my late twenties. During that time I built my career as a computer programmer.
Socially, I spent much time with the local Pagan community where I met my (soon to be ex) wife, but never fully participated in the religion. The marriage was ill-conceived, and after the divorce and a long year of emotional pain, I began to function normally again.
I say all this to show that I had no traumatic experiences with religion; my difficulties with my wife were entirely unrelated to religion. At no time did I despair of God’s love, or conceive that my pain was a result of the “Divine Weasel” playing cruel tricks on me. In my mind God was entirely irrelevant to either my pain or my recovery. Religion was the farthest thing from my mind.
I have had my share of difficulties, nowhere near as traumatic as Glitch’s, but severe nonetheless: A bout of severe clinical depression as a teenager, betrayal by friends and lovers, financial difficulties, etc. I have also had my share of joy and happiness. I have, to be perfectly honest, performed an action out of spite and anger which was hurtful to another (nothing criminal or violent, but creepy and vengeful all the same) for which I am and will remain deeply ashamed.
I can’t pinpoint the day I decided I was an Atheist. But as I experienced various events and conversations on the the topic, I slowly began to realize that God (any God: Christian, Pagan, marshmallow, etc.) was simply irrelevant to my life.
The joys and happiness I have experienced have been my own. My triumphs over difficulty and aversity have been my own. My sins (paltry though they are) are my own.
I admire the philosophy of Jesus, and Buddha, and other religious figures. I have resolved to love as much as possible, and to never hate, and never cause harm. Not because God instructs me to do so, not for the promise of an afterlife, but because it suits me to do so.
I don’t know what will happen to my personality, my memories, my sprit or my soul after I die, but I strongly suspect that I will merely cease to exist after I die. I can live with this.
I don’t know where the Universe came from, or where it’s going, but I’m strongly persuaded that it’s 10-15 billion years old and that the Sun, the stars, the earth, life, and humankind developed by rational, comprehensible processes. I don’t believe there’s a purpose or a design to the universe, or my own life. I’m here, I’m experiencing what life has to offer, the good and the bad. I can live with this too.
I’m profoundly disturbed that the so many who call themselves Christian have chosen to demonstrate their faith by siding with the “bad guys” and the forces of hatred and division. But I ascribe this to ordinary human stupidity and insanity, not as an expression of any defect in a supposed God.
I don’t worry any more about whether God exists, or whether I should or shouldn’t believe in Him. I merely live as Christ: I find love in my heart, here and now as often as I can. I strive to erase hatred from my heart; whether religious or not, it serves only to bring me pain and poison my thoughts. I strive to erase doubt: I can never know everything. Rather, I embrace uncertainty and skepticism. I believe what I see, but I examine it closely. I forgive myself: I am human, and whether by divine creation, or accident of evolution, prone to error. And I live my life to the fullest.
I experience everything life has to offer. I seek out challenges and respond to them with all my mind and will can bring to bear. I am an adult, and I take full responsibility for how I live my life. No excuses, no quarter asked or given. I don’t need a Dad, or a crutch, or a divine purpose. My life has value in and of itself, to me at least.
If a just and loving God exists, perhaps I will feel His Grace. But if not, I will have lived an honorable and happy life, and that’s no mean feat. Having abandoned the possibility of the former, I have found contentment and fulfillment in the latter.
He’s the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armor, shouting ‘All Gods are Bastards!’
Poly, good thoughts. Thanks for sharing them.
SingleDad, I am glad that you have found happiness as you have and thanks for sharing your story with us. I cannot say what lies ahead for you, only time will tell.
From your words it does not seem that you are searching for something spiritual. However, and I may be wrong, based on things posted by Glitch and Gaudere (both in this thread and others) I sense that they are searching for something. They may not feel this way and I may be wrong, but their questions and responses seem to be an attempt to learn and reconcile their understandings on God and that which is spiritual.
Whether what I or Poly, or Lib or anyone else says changes Glitch’s, Gaudere’s or anyone else’s view on God, does not really matter. I seek to try to explain as much as I can about God and his nature as best as I understand it.
I am always willing to discuss my views with anyone. I try to never be judgemental.
Jeffery
Also, SingleDad, you read this thread in 2 hours? Dang you must be a speedreader. 
Jeffery
ManyFish (still makes me chuckle :))
This would be true if the communication was at a personal level; however, God also communicates en masse. It is during this communcation that He shows a particular that MUST come into play when considering any personal communication from/with God.
How does a person reconcile a “Divine Me” like message with the en masse message of the Traditional Christian God (TCG for short)?
To use your Gaudere example, if Gaudere were replying to me it is true she may reply in a particular manner than say NewtonsApple. However, both replies visible to all reveal part of her character. Only by privately speaking to me, and privately speaking to NA could she keep her interaction with each truly unique to the needs of each person.
Not sure. I view the attempted suicide as being an unnecessary detour (mind you I do see it only from my limited mortal perspective). I could have taken either road to get to where I am now. I think I would rather I had arrived here without less injured. I am glad that it is possible to convert the negative to the positive (Creation Principle) but I would rather still that it was positive creating more positive.
SingleDad: Great post. Thanks for sharing your story.
Jeffery:
From “The Atheist Relgion (Part 3)”:
I describe part of my personal philosophy as seeking truth and avoiding/destroying illusions and delusion.
There is the Truth ™. I.e. that which really is. Then there is the truth ™. I.e. that which I “know”.
My goal is to unify to the best of my ability “truth” with “Truth”. Note the order. It is rather important, many people try to unify “Truth” with “truth”.
So, quite simply, “Does God exist?” is a question and as such for completeness needs an answer.
Why that question instead of “Does the marshmellow god exist?”? Because I have limited time, and I so I have to pick and choose. There is more evidence of God than Zeus, even if it is weak evidence i.e. like the sheer fact that the religion has survived 2000 years. There are other factors, most of the cultural as to why I would pick to examine God over other gods. But none-the-less, at the point in my life it is simply a part of my overall philosophy of unification of truth (not Truth).
In paragraph numero uno.
“… a particular must …” should be “…a particular facet must …”
SingleDad:
Your resolution coincides with His. And that makes you my brother.
[tip o’ the hat…]
Glitch
Greetings, ol’ friend. 
As I recall, you like lists.
-
Question: Does God exist?
-
Synthesis: Does X exist?
-
Imperative: Define X.
-
Definition: X = Y, an element of Z
-
Experimentation: Exhaust Z, searching for Y
-
Branch: Y found, go to 8
-
Else: End.
What is 8?
And you mine. It is refreshing to see in you, Polycarp and many others here that Christianity can mean tolerance, love, and intelligence.
And (as I think you might agree), that they are my brothers and sisters whos resolution does not coincide with ours (and His). This is perhaps the hardest part of love.
However don’t forget that we have a substantial difference: I come by my beliefs selfishly, to further my own well being, and not from a belief in God.
I definitely agree with you. I posted because, perhaps, I have found what they might be seeking: a way of life based not on rejection of God, but on living many similar principles arrived at through the process of reason.
I trust my heart. Whether God is speaking to me through my heart, or whether I am merely expressing my own nature as determined by genetic evolution, cultural upbringing and blind chance, ultimately makes no difference to me. I would live the same in either case.
And perhaps this is the strongest testimony for the teachings of the great Religions: that, at their core, they show us a way to live well, with self-respect, joy and depth.
Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.) - Walt Whitman
One of the phrases I hear most often in any theistic discussion is, “I believe in a G-d who…” Three young boys obviously believed in a G-d who would look down on someone that didn’t follow His word to the letter. Glitch did not. I think the way in which most people “find” G-d is by finding out how He fits into their lives. Some people need the emotional support of a G-d who loves them unconditionally, and will share their pain. Some need a G-d who will serve as a moral and ethical example of right and wrong, to act as the ultimate arbitar in their lives by juding right from wrong on a holistic scale. Libertarian has used the phrase “you are G-d” several times, leading me to believe that he sees G-d as the harmony or balance we seek to find inside ourselves. I may be absolutely wrong in that statement, and do not wish to put words in Libertarian’s or anyone else’s mouth.
Glitch, I’m curious what you really expect G-d to be. I’m sure by this point, you’ve heard many opinions and beliefs on the matter. You also mentioned an attempt to reconcile Christianity with the Spirit of Osu. Have you ever considered returning to that? Not (entirely) from a theological standpoint, but more of a philosophical one?
Something that has always stayed with me: people I have known, or known of, who have delved into the theological for a very long time warn of one particular thing. Do not, they say, think of G-d as a person. For in thinking of Him as a person, you compare Him to a flawed image in your mind. To me, it’s not a question of “can an atheist ever find G-d?” The question is, “can an atheist find where G-d is?” We look at the universe and attempt to see a whole, both physically and metaphysically. To the theist, we see G-d as an integral part to keep everything together. Like a body needs a soul to function, the universe needs G-d.
The atheist, in looking at the universe, does not see the need of a G-d to hold it together (let’s leave the question of human/soul completely aside). Either way, the universe is a completely functioning unit from our individual perspectives. We are all, I believe, seeking completness.
I was very tempted, just now, to say “I believe the greatest failing for an atheist is to believe they have found it without G-d.” Not only is it damned presumtive of me, but it’s also wrong. I cannot think of a single atheist, and I know many personally, who are so close minded to think they know “enough” about the universe to say with absolute certainty “there is no G-d in it.” In fact, this is our whole debate, isn’t it? To show how the world can work with/without G-d in it?
I also wonder, is organized religion more of a help or hinderance in answering these questions.
more thoughts for the pyre,
from the inkblot.
“Stercus, stercus, stercus, moritus sum!”
InkBlot:
Depends from which perspective you wish me to view it. I do not expect God exists. However, if Gods exists then He could be just about anything. I would hope He would be like the “Divine Me”.
I have attempted to do this. In fact, many if not all of my posts on theology could be interpreted as reconciling Christianity with the philosophy of me, which is partially composed of the Spirit of Osu. In fact, the pondering of the “Divine Me” as God or a facet of a multi-facted God is exactly that.
Is Christianity possible with a “Divine Me” type God as God or part of a multi-faceted God (my reasoning in previous posts suggests to me otherwise)? Do you have insight on this particular thought you would like to share? I would love to hear it.
Glitch, you ask whether Christianity is possible with a “Devine Me” or Multi-faceted God. I believe it may be. First I will give some of my generic thoughts, but secondly I would like for you to explain further your concept of the “Devine Me” and why you believe this or a multi-faceted God is not likely.
What is Christianity? It is a distinct movement born from the Jewish religion. It is a religion. It is a collection of like minded (at least on the areas of Christ) believers. When people have differing beliefs in an area, a denomination was formed.
So, if Christainity is a religion, then why do we need such a construct?
I believe God made man to be a social animal. We gather together with people that have similar beliefs, thoughts, interests as we do. But, wait, why then do we congregate on this message board? We do not all have the same beliefs. Well we do have in common the desire to learn and grow in many areas, and to learn from those not like us. We have within us all to not only be with those like us, but to also learn from those areas that we are different.
Religions form, because those involved have a like mind (at least in the area of their religion). From this formation, we can teach each other that what God has taught us.
Glitch, God speaks to me on a level I understand. He interacts with me in the manner that I need. The way he communicates with me is potentially different than the manner that he communicates with others. Does God communicate with masses of people? That is a good question and not one easily answered.
I think God communicates to most if not all attendees at a worship service, but he does not necessarily do so in the same manner. The preacher preaches the same message to all who are present, but each person gets a different meaning. They get what they need from God. Even when Jesus spoke to the masses, each person got a potentially different spin on the message. The message over all is the same, but it can speak to each of us differently.
If we have a discussion about God, we learn from each other, hopefully. But we still have a different communication from God.
If we view this on a human perspective, if there is a thread discussing anything on this board, many people can read it, but our biases, and personallities come into play and we each potentially have a different take on the meaning. Some may take one part of the message and target it, others may take another part. Yes, the message was communicated to us all, but we all likely got something different from the message.
So, God can easily target his communication to our needs. But is he really different for all of us? I think God’s base nature is the same for all people. He is good and perfect and omniscient and loving. That does not change no matter who we are. Does he choose to reach out to Glitch or Poly, or Lib, or Gaudere, differently than to me, he can and I believe he does.
Jeffery