# Could you enjoy Heaven if the bad-guys made it too? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 20, 2014, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598 "2014-07-20T13:50:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/21 "2014-07-20T21:21:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Playing along with the OP, and assuming that by “Heaven” it is meant a place that I personally would consider to be a heaven, I would have no problem with meeting anyone else there. Don’t have time for a proper reply but I kind of worded my OP for it to reflect a non-demoninational heaven _(the nature of it not really being the question, just that its absolutely fandabulous)_, people are leaping to the assumption that its a classically Christian heaven _(granted the ‘pearly gates’ bit doesn’t help but still)_ when it doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/22 "2014-07-20T21:23:37Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Don’t have time for a proper reply but I kind of worded my OP for it to reflect a non-demoninational heaven _(the nature of it not really being the question, just that its absolutely fandabulous)_, people are leaping to the assumption that its a classically Christian heaven _(granted the ‘pearly gates’ bit doesn’t help but still)_ when it doesn’t have to be. Some go with the hypothetical, some screw with the hypothetical. Way of the world, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/23 "2014-07-20T21:30:36Z")
If it were to happen that my mortal enemies got to Heaven, I’m guessing it would be large enough that we wouldn’t bump into each other. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/24 "2014-07-20T21:47:38Z")
> [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](#): > > The bad guys wouldn’t bother me as much as the constant singing and praising God that you have to do up there. > > According to the Christian bible, that’s all that goes on up there, a bunch of singing and praising for eternity. > > You’ll go nuts from that long before you start getting pissed off at the other inhabitants. > > You’re better off converting to Judaism, they don’t have to be part of a celestial choir that sings praises the praises of God for eternity. [Heather Chandler from _Heathers_]: “God, Veronica. My afterlife is so boring. If I have to sing Kumbaya one more time…”[/Heather Chandler] ---
**Author:** ![Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f6c823/32.png) [@Absinthe\_Anecdote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absinthe_Anecdote)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2014, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/25 "2014-07-20T21:49:31Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > Don’t have time for a proper reply but I kind of worded my OP for it to reflect a non-demoninational heaven _(the nature of it not really being the question, just that its absolutely fandabulous)_, people are leaping to the assumption that its a classically Christian heaven _(granted the ‘pearly gates’ bit doesn’t help but still)_ when it doesn’t have to be. They probably won’t let you in with that attitude; I’m guessing that you’ll be called a heretic or a blasphemer and be sent packing. No sir! The heaven that I don’t believe in is a pretty strict place. You can learn more about it from Jack Chick tracts if you are interested. However, there is a Jack Chick tract called the Gunslinger that supports the idea of evil men who accept Jesus right before death being admitted. So you might actually find yourself sitting next to a real slime-ball in the celestial choir, but you’ll be too busy singing to notice. None-the-less, your question begs a discussion of the very nature of heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/26 "2014-07-21T21:00:28Z")
Both Christianity and Islam address this topic in the [parable of the field hand’s wages](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Workers_in_the_Vineyard). ---
**Author:** ![Lorene89095](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@Lorene89095](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lorene89095)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/27 "2014-07-21T23:48:44Z")
In MY heaven there will be lots of dogs,cats and other animals… No evil people. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/28 "2014-07-22T01:01:15Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Dave’s not here, man. Who? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/29 "2014-07-22T01:47:00Z")
Aren’t there certain Muslim faiths that believe “the bad ones” only go to hell for a select period of time and then afterwords, they are allowed in to heaven? Anyway, I’d be fine with it. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/30 "2014-07-22T03:37:20Z")
The tourist brochures I’ve seen for Heaven suggest that when you go there, you surrender your “free will”. I guess the bad guys do, too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/31 "2014-07-22T04:06:09Z")
Do I have to hang around Hitler? Please no. Personally as a namby pamby wishy washy weak minded liberal, I prefer that nobody and nothing suffer burning and torture for eternity, or even google plex years. So, I’m cool with harmless bad guys in heaven. If we do eat in heaven, I want lots of bacon. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/32 "2014-07-22T04:11:26Z")
If bad guys can go to heaven then so can the bad girls and that means i’m likely to enjoy heaven a whole lot more, not less.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/33 "2014-07-22T04:28:20Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Aren’t there certain Muslim faiths that believe “the bad ones” only go to hell for a select period of time and then afterwords, they are allowed in to heaven? Christopher: How long do you think we’ve got to stay there? Paulie: That’s different for everybody. You add up all your mortal sins and multiply that number by 50. Then you add up all your venial sins and multiply that by 25. You add that together and that’s your sentence. I figure I’m gonna have to do 6,000 years before I get accepted into heaven and 6,000 years is nothin’ in eternity terms. I can do that standing on my head. It’s like a couple of days here. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/34 "2014-07-22T04:38:44Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I think I’d prefer that to having knowledge of bad guys being in eternal torment. > > So, my answer is I hope so. This. The whole concept of an omnimax god holding us 100% accountable for our actions doesn’t make sense to begin with. And if god’s so powerful he’ll know what actions are necessary to reform even the worst of us. ftr: non-believer ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/35 "2014-07-22T05:04:53Z")
I tend to subscribe to the Byrnian view, “_Heaven is a place, a place where nothing, nothing ever happens_”, so if I had to suffer through that, old Schickelgruber can too. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/36 "2014-07-22T06:36:11Z")
> [@toofs](#): > > Who? Dave! ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/37 "2014-07-22T07:48:42Z")
Dave’s not here, man. Edit: > [@Oakminster](#): > > Dave’s not here, man. This is what I get for posting a response to an OP before reading the thread in its entirety. ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/38 "2014-07-22T07:53:35Z")
Serious reply: It would bother me if the so-called bad guys _didn’t_ make it into heaven. At some point there is an arbitrary line where if you only slightly cross it, you’re eternally full of bliss, and if you can’t, you’re eternally damned. There is no way that this can be just, especially for a crime committed in a very temporary form of existence. Most of the good guys I’ve met have been assholes too, they just keep their assholishness on \*this \*side of murdering and raping and therefore count as “good”. But they’re not good. They’re smug, selfish, hateful, ignorant pricks. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/39 "2014-07-22T10:15:46Z")
Wouldn’t worry me. When we get there I’m sure it’s just like here. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2014, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598/40 "2014-07-22T11:01:17Z")
This is how C.S. Lewis imagined how a denizen of Purgatory (soon to be Hell) would confront a perceived bad guy, as he (the damned one) made up his mind whether to enter Heaven: > [@](#): > > “What I’d like to understand,” said the Ghost, “is what you’re here for, as pleased as Punch, you, a bloody murderer, while I’ve been walking the streets down there and living in a place like a pigstye all these years.” > > “That is a little hard to understand at first. But it is all over now. You will be pleased about it presently. Till then there is no need to bother about it.” > > . . . > > “What do you keep on arguing for? I’m only telling you the sort of chap I am. I only want my rights. I’m not asking for anybody’s bleeding charity.” > > “Then do. At once. Ask for the Bleeding Charity. Everything is here for the asking and nothing can be bought.” > > “That may be very well for you, I daresay. If they choose to let in a bloody murderer all because he makes a poor mouth at the last moment, that’s their lookout. But I don’t see myself going in the same boat with you, see? Why should I? I don’t want charity. I’m a decent man and if I had my rights I’d have been here long ago and you can tell them I said so.” > > The other shook his head. “You can never do it like that,” he said. “Your feet will never grow hard enough to walk on our grass that way. You’d be tired out before we got to the mountains. And it isn’t exactly true, you know.” Mirth danced in his eyes as he said it. > > “What isn’t true?” asked the Ghost sulkily. > > “You weren’t a decent man and you didn’t do your best. We none of us were and we none of us did. Lord bless you, it doesn’t matter. There is no need to go into it all now.” > > “You!” gasped the Ghost. “You have the face to tell me I wasn’t a decent chap?” > > “Of course. Must I go into all that? I will tell you one thing to begin with. Murdering old Jack wasn’t the worst thing I did. That was the work of a moment and I was half mad when I did it. But I murdered you in my heart, deliberately, for years. I used to lie awake at nights thinking what I’d do to you if ever I got the chance. That is why I have been sent to you now: to ask your forgiveness and to be your servant as long as you need one, and longer if it pleases vou . I was the worst. But all the men who worked under vou felt the same. You made it hard for us, you know. And vou made it hard for your wife too and for your children.” > > “You mind your own business, young man,” said the Ghost. “None of your lip, see? Because I’m not taking anv impudence from you about my private affairs.” > > “There are no private affairs,” said the other. > > “And I’ll tell you another thing,” said the Ghost. “You can clear off, see? You’re not wanted. I may be only a poor man but I’m not making pals with a murderer, let alone taking lessons from him. Made it hard for you and your like, did I? If I had you back there I’d show you what work is.” > > “Come and show me now,” said the other with laughter in his voice. “It will be joy going to the mountains, but there will be plenty of work.” > > “You don’t suppose I’d go with you?” “Don’t refuse. You will never get there alone. And I am the one who was sent to you.” > > “So that’s the trick, is it?” shouted the Ghost, outwardly bitter, and yet I thought there was a kind of triumph in its voice. It had been entreated: it could make a refusal: and this seemed to it a kind of advantage. “I thought there’d be some damned nonsense. It’s all a clique, all a bloody clique. Tell them I’m not coming, see? I’d rather be damned than go along with you. I came here to get my rights, see? Not to go snivelling along on charity tied onto your apron-strings. If they’re too fine to have me without you, I’ll go home.” It was almost happy now that it could, in a sense, threaten. “That’s what I’ll do,” it repeated, “I’ll go home, I didn’t come here to be treated like a dog. I’ll go home. That’s what I’ll do. Damn and blast the whole pack of you . . .” In the end, still grumbling, but whimpering also a little as it picked its way over the sharp grasses, it made off. And so he goes back and boards the flying bus back to Hell. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-enjoy-heaven-if-the-bad-guys-made-it-too/693598.md?page=3)