# Could you have a true dictatorship in a country with more guns than people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 8, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915 "2024-11-08T08:27:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/141 "2024-12-17T05:04:00Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > I don’t think a worst-case scenario for a civilian partisan resistance can fairly be considered proof of arms being irrelevant. I would view arms as “necessary but not sufficient The OP was arguing that a large prevalence of civilians owning weapons in a country rules out the possibility of that country becoming a dictatorship. The fact that the most dramatic example of a whole swath of countries, across all of Eastern Europe, becoming extremely autocratic dictatorships for decades coincides with the highest prevalence of civilian gun ownership in history, pretty conclusively shows the OP to be incorrect ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/142 "2024-12-17T15:53:14Z")
Became dictatorships _by external conquest_; of populations too devastated by previous war to have the strength to resist. No one ever said that an armed populace couldn’t be crushed from without by sheer weight. The OP was talking about home-grown indigenous coup d’état. Apples and oranges. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/143 "2024-12-17T16:13:00Z")
No, if anything external enemies are _easier_ to drive off. They after all can be convinced that the task isn’t worth it and go home; homegrown oppressors are already at home and have no same place to retreat to if they lose. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/144 "2024-12-17T16:57:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > They after all can be convinced that the task isn’t worth it and go home; homegrown oppressors are already at home and have no same place to retreat to if they lose. Yeah, totally. They just face an embarrassing loss of face on the world stage if they lose and have to withdraw, versus a domestic dictator who faces being hung up from the nearest lamppost ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2024, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/145 "2024-12-17T19:09:48Z")
You seem to be arguing that if five armed people and a dog can’t fight off an army, that’s proof that civilian ownership of weapons is always completely useless. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/146 "2024-12-18T01:28:36Z")
Civilian ownership of weapons is worse than useless, it makes you more likely to be killed. Both by the authorities and by yourself. And a million civilians with guns demonstrably can’t fight off an army. Armies have logistics and organization and heavy weapons and armored vehicles. You could give _every_ adult guns and the training to use them and it wouldn’t help. Especially since in real life many or most of those armed civilians will be on the side of the dictatorship. Paranoia and the desire for murder and terrorizing other people is the main reason for civilians to have guns, and people like that are more likely to support dictator. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/147 "2024-12-18T01:41:05Z")
If five armed people and a dog decide to take on an army, that’s a pretty stark example of unreasonable expectations, irrespective of how well regulated they are. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/148 "2024-12-18T03:25:45Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Especially since in real life many or most of those armed civilians will be on the side of the dictatorship. Paranoia and the desire for murder and terrorizing other people is the main reason for civilians to have guns, and people like that are more likely to support dictator. More strawmen than the county fair’s scarecrow contest. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/149 "2024-12-18T03:34:51Z")
So, aside from all of the many counterexamples, it can’t happen. Has there ever been even one instance, in all of history, of an armed populace successfully fighting off a dictatorship? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/150 "2024-12-18T04:54:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Has there ever been even one instance, in all of history, of an armed populace successfully fighting off a dictatorship? Also, note that _actual_ guerilla warfare centers on bombs, not guns. _Shooting_ at soldiers just gets you killed, an IED means you can inflict casualties and stay alive to do it again. I’m quite sure that an important reason for the constant drumbeat of “guns guns guns” is because the Republicans _know perfectly well_ guns won’t help. They want anyone who listens to them to prepare to fight in a way that guarantees a swift and ineffectual death on their part. The fact that their followers will be properly armed to massacre innocents is a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/151 "2024-12-18T14:47:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Has there ever been even one instance, in all of history, of an armed populace successfully fighting off a dictatorship? > > Also, note that _actual_ guerilla warfare centers on bombs, not guns. _Shooting_ at soldiers just gets you killed, an IED means you can inflict casualties and stay alive to do it again. OK now _that_ part is true: a successful armed revolution is not just about getting into random shootouts. OTOH an environment in which random shootouts abound is a very fine justification for a regime to crack down and for the bulk of the population to say “heck yeah, fuck rights, gimme safe streets” (see: El Salvador). ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/152 "2024-12-18T21:47:02Z")
I think the majority of gunowners in this country would cast in their lot with the fascists. I don’t think having guns in our country will lower our chances of a dictatorship, but might actually make it more likely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/153 "2024-12-18T23:05:50Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > OTOH an environment in which random shootouts abound is a very fine justification for a regime to crack down and for the bulk of the population to say “heck yeah, fuck rights, gimme safe streets” (see: El Salvador). BINGO. _Of course_ this is part of the right-wing dream of utter subjugation of the populace: that many members of that populace will call for and support perpetual martial law (their long-dreamed of Police State). Naturally they didn’t spill those particular beans in Project 2025, where they were pretending to be (snicker) Reasonable Supporters of Democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/154 "2024-12-18T23:25:04Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I think the majority of gunowners in this country would cast in their lot with the fascists. Why the subjunctive? The majority of gunowners in this country have been casting in their lot with the fascists for a decade now. ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/155 "2024-12-18T23:50:19Z")
Yeah, agreed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/156 "2024-12-19T01:29:55Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > I think the majority of gunowners in this country would cast in their lot with the fascists. FYI, there are an estimated 90 Million gun owners in the USA. Of them, less than 5 Million belong to the NRA. Current estimate is 4.3 M. You’d think that any ultra right wing gun owners would support the NRA. trump only got 77 Million votes. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915/157 "2024-12-19T01:37:10Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > there are 400 million guns in this country. How many of them fire bullets that can penetrate tank armor? Hint: Maybe a 50 caliber, with a lucky shot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-have-a-true-dictatorship-in-a-country-with-more-guns-than-people/1009915.md?page=7)