# Could you kill a man? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720 "2010-08-27T21:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/61 "2010-08-28T17:14:49Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > I couldn’t do it for _any_ reason. > > I find that hard to believe. Would you not fight to save your life? Nope-I’m just not wired that way. Call it my own personal mental defect, if you wish. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/62 "2010-08-28T22:08:12Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he’s dead. Did you get any on you? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/63 "2010-08-28T23:34:49Z")
yes to all of the above although my other would probably be restricted to war/battle related as a sniper/assassin ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/64 "2010-08-28T23:59:07Z")
Please note that I would hate myself for the rest of my life, if I did. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/65 "2010-08-29T02:21:21Z")
(I haven’t read the thread.) I cannot know. But I’m certain I could under certain circumstances. I’d feel very bad about it afterward, but I’m pretty good at compartmentalising data. I’d reckon I’d still be alive to feel bad. I was in the L.A. County Courthouse when a man shot his wife to death in a courtroom. (This was at the same time the O.J. Simpson trial was going on down the street, before there were metal detectors to get into the County courthouse.) Everyone in the jury pool room dove for cover. I sat there thinking, ‘Hm. Sounded like a handgun. [Bang! Bang!Bang!] Yep. Handgun. Maybe a .38 or a 9mm. Doesn’t that person know how upsetting gunfire is to people who aren’t familiar with guns? Look at these people running around!’ I thought it unlikely that a madman would be run into the jury pool room and start shooting. Still, I wished I had my 92FS just in case. Someone later (i.e. well after the fact, and no one who was in the room) told me that my thinking displayed sociopathic tendencies. If that’s true, does that mean I’d be likely to shoot someone I considered a threat? What if I saw an armed assailant threatening someone, and I had the drop on him? Would I yell, ‘Freeze! Drop it!’? Or would I just kill him? As a non-violent person, it worries me that I might do a bit of quick calculus and just pull the trigger. From a survival standpoint it makes sense. ‘Law of the Jungle’ and all that. But as a Human Being it’s worrisome. I hope I never have to know the answer. > [@](#): > > A “pacifist male” is a contradiction in terms. Most self-described “pacifists” are not pacific; they simply assume false colors. When the wind changes, they hoist the Jolly Roger. > > _Sourced, Time Enough for Love_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/66 "2010-08-29T18:26:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Would I yell, ‘Freeze! Drop it!’? Or would I just kill him? One wonders what the legal questions are for conceal and carry. And, despite saving someone’s life, would you be prosecuted for having a gun where you aren’t supposed to? Of course, you’d still be alive to _be_ prosecuted. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/67 "2010-08-29T18:29:25Z")
As it happens, I to have a concealed-carry permit. I never carry a weapon, so the above scenario is unlikely. But a CCW does allow me to forego a waiting period if I want to buy a new handgun. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/68 "2010-08-29T18:39:42Z")
I am a pacifist. I have not been in a fight since I was 12. I can not imagine circumstances that I would kill someone. Protecting your family does not require killing someone, but deterring him. But if a berzerk maniac was going to rape and murder your family, what would you do? I don’t know. Like everyone else, i would be guessing. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/69 "2010-08-29T18:58:11Z")
_“Hell, I’ll kill a man in a fair fight… or if I think he’s gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there’s a woman, or if I’m gettin’ paid - mostly only when I’m gettin’ paid.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/70 "2010-08-29T19:05:27Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > Would I yell, ‘Freeze! Drop it!’? Or would I just kill him? > > One wonders what the legal questions are for conceal and carry. > And, despite saving someone’s life, would you be prosecuted for having a gun where you aren’t supposed to? > Of course, you’d still be alive to _be_ prosecuted. 🙂 I’m pretty sure the powers that be would frown on **Johnny L.A.** carrying within a courthouse. And, though I’m not a prosecutor, I’m confident that Johnny would be indicted for _something_, even if he did end up saving the day. _Pour descourager les autres_, after all. Heck, even Mark Wilson getting involved with a [shooting outside the courthouse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyler_courthouse_shooting) was controversial. (Frankly, the controversy in my mind was that, when Wilson chose to get involved, he didn’t shoot David Arroyo, Sr. from his loft window with a rifle. Maybe he didn’t have one, I don’t know.) I would be interested in hearing from someone with a legal background, whether state law _requires_ an initial attempt to verbally warn the aggressor, or whether it is considered reasonable for a non-LEO to use deadly force without first verbally warning the aggressor. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/71 "2010-08-29T19:09:52Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > _“Hell, I’ll kill a man in a fair fight… or if I think he’s gonna start a fair fight, or if he bothers me, or if there’s a woman, or if I’m gettin’ paid - mostly only when I’m gettin’ paid.”_ You really should cite _Serenity_ when using this quote. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/72 "2010-08-29T19:25:23Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I’m pretty sure the powers that be would frown on **Johnny L.A.** carrying within a courthouse. And, though I’m not a prosecutor, I’m confident that Johnny would be indicted for _something_, even if he did end up saving the day. _Pour descourager les autres_, after all. To reiterate: [ul][li]This was before metal detectors were installed at entrances. That’s how the shooter got the gun in; he just walked in with it. (FWIW, he was involved in divorce proceedings and his ex-wife got the car. Must’ve been a helluva car for him to be upset. He shot and killed her in front of their 8-year-old daughter.) [/li][li]It never occurred to me to carry a gun in myself. I don’t carry one now, even though I have a permit to do so.[/ul][/li] Leaving courtrooms out of it, maybe I decide on a whim to pack heat. Or maybe I’m on my way to or from the shooting range. I see someone in a life-threatening situation. AFAIK, the criterion is that a reasonable person must be in imminent fear of his life or grave bodily harm, or that someone else is in danger of losing his life or grievous injury. Some jurisdictions have a ‘must retreat’ law, and others have the ‘castle doctrine’. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/73 "2010-08-29T21:03:29Z")
If it is kill or be killed, protect your child or not, what is there to think about? Frankly, I cant understand (or trust) anyone that would not kill. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/74 "2010-08-29T22:57:21Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This was before metal detectors were installed at entrances. That’s how the shooter got the gun in; he just walked in with it. When I had jury duty we had to enter the courthouse through a metal detector. Upon returning from lunch however, we did not. I could have taken a weapon from the trunk of my car and carried it back in. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/75 "2010-08-30T01:55:13Z")
I’ve killed so many, I don’t hardly break a sweat anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/76 "2010-08-30T02:30:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > As it happens, I to have a concealed-carry permit. I never carry a weapon, so the above scenario is unlikely. But a CCW does allow me to forego a waiting period if I want to buy a new handgun. I think you are an exception. I would guess almost all/most CCW holders have already made the decision to kill if necessary in order to protect oneself or ones family in danger. Everyone working as a police officer has also made that decision to kill. The poll numbers on this topic of 77% and 79% are not true at all. The “real poll” is the number of Americans who have actually made the decision to kill if necessary and who hold CCW’s. Those people who dont have CCW’s, most of them, probably would not kill in any real life situation but they would cower and give up. It is not a game, and it is not a hypothetical question. It is real. Bottom line: When you get right down to it, its really a very small number of people who are willing to kill, and who have demonstrated their ability to kill by owning and carrying a gun, just a few percent of the American total population have CCW’s. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/77 "2010-08-30T02:46:23Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Frankly, I can’t understand (or trust) anyone that would not kill. [QUOTE=Susanann] Bottom line: When you get right down to it, its really a very small number of people who are willing to kill, and who have demonstrated their ability to kill by owning and carrying a gun, just a few percent of the American total population have CCW’s. [/QUOTE] I’m confused-does this mean that you only understand and trust a very small number of people? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/78 "2010-08-30T02:52:21Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > Those people who dont have CCW’s, most of them, probably would not kill in any real life situation but they would cower and give up. Upon what do you base that opinion? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/79 "2010-08-30T03:15:22Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > As it happens, I do have a concealed-carry permit. I never carry a weapon, so the above scenario is unlikely. But a CCW does allow me to forego a waiting period if I want to buy a new handgun. > > I think you are an exception. > > I would guess almost all/most CCW holders have already made the decision to kill if necessary in order to protect oneself or ones family in danger. Oh, I have made the intellectual decision that I’ll kill if I have to. I know I wouldn’t like it, and I’ll always seek to avoid such a confrontation. ‘The secret to a long life is knowing when it’s time to go.’ I don’t go armed because I feel no need to. The CCW is a novelty and a convenience. But I’m fully aware of the implications, and will use deadly force if it can’t be avoided. As I said, I don’t carry. On the other hand, I could probably kill someone just by falling on him. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720/80 "2010-08-30T03:33:53Z")
Strip away all the culture and reason and we’re just apes. Apes will fight and kill to defend themselves if they have to, humans are much the same. In moments of great fear and danger, most mammals seem to go into “fight or flight” mode. I think many people will try to get away if they can, but I think the overwhelming majority of people if they _cannot_ get away, will fight to the death. The desire to live is amazingly strong, and it is hard wired in at a very deep level. In those moments I think the ordinary person who has not trained or been prepared for violence are truly taken over by primal instinct. In a way the training of soldiers is an attempt to make sure people instantly fall back on their training instead of that primal instinct (because sometimes the primal instinct will be flight when the best interests of the unit require everyone to pick “fight.”) I think it is only possible through nearly _inhuman_ amounts of willpower for someone to not defend themselves. With the caveat that it’s obviously situational. I assume we’re talking situations in which you’re essentially 1 versus 1 or in a situation where you _can_ kill your way out of it. People who were being rounded up by the Nazis often didn’t fight because they recognized the futility. That’s very different from the more primal scenario of someone coming after you with ill intent on a dark street at night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-kill-a-man/551720.md?page=5)