# Could you knock out an enraged chimp?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [July 7, 2010, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830 "2010-07-07T08:20:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/121 "2010-07-12T06:03:30Z")
> [@matt](#):
>
> Not a punch, but quite instructive anyway:
>
> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9BvKvILvxI](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9BvKvILvxI)
Isn’t that a fairly decent example of the transfer of energy? And yes, I see how much the hand absorbed.
Is a motorcycle helmet designed to stop the brain from sloshing around in a 35 mph accident or does it absorb the energy that would be transmitted to the skull and brain upon impact?
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### Author:  [@matt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/122 "2010-07-12T06:50:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Isn’t that a fairly decent example of the transfer of energy? And yes, I see how much the hand absorbed.
Yes it is! The physics of that sort of impact is fascinating and probably filled with subtleties we miss.
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Is a motorcycle helmet designed to stop the brain from sloshing around in a 35 mph accident or does it absorb the energy that would be transmitted to the skull and brain upon impact?
Pretty sure there’s not much you can do about the brain sloshing around other than hope the guy doesn’t come to a halt too abruptly. The helmet absorbs external impacts and the cushioning means that the skull may come to a stop over 3/4 inch rather than 1/1000 inch, which might save a life.
My lunch break is over so I have to bow out for a few hours, but I’ll be back.
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### Author:  [@EVIL\_COW\_PIE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EVIL_COW_PIE)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/123 "2010-07-12T08:06:45Z")
**Magiver** , when younger I too believed all the fairy tales my various martial arts instructors told me. Alas, my illusions were dashed when I watched real fighters in real fights dish out these “death in seconds” moves over and over in the world of MMA with not much effect. I know it hurts dude, but the Moe Howard just ain’t capable of generating enough KE for a KO. The Reverse Moe even less.
[Here’s some more bologna](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/477508/preasure_point_skills/).[And Here](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128019/killer_move/).
[Here’s what happens when you start to believe in it.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8UKDzVmzt8)
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/124 "2010-07-12T09:50:51Z")
> [@EVIL\_COW\_PIE](#):
>
> **Magiver** , when younger I too believed all the fairy tales my various martial arts instructors told me. Alas, my illusions were dashed when I watched real fighters in real fights dish out these “death in seconds” moves over and over in the world of MMA with not much effect. I know it hurts dude, but the Moe Howard just ain’t capable of generating enough KE for a KO. The Reverse Moe even less.
>
> [Here’s some more bologna](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/477508/preasure_point_skills/).[And Here](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128019/killer_move/).
>
> [Here’s what happens when you start to believe in it.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8UKDzVmzt8)
I’ve put people in the hospital so you’re lecturing the wrong person on what can and cannot be done with martial arts. The 3 stooges reference is not an argument and is as childish as the videos you listed. You’ve provided nothing in the way of dialog regarding the transmission or dissipation of the energy from the impact to the head.
Did you watch the video of the brick being struck? How do you not understand that this was the result of the energy of the blow? Replace the brick with someone’s head and the damage to the brain is going to be substantial.
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/125 "2010-07-12T11:11:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Replace the brick with someone’s head and the damage to the brain is going to be substantial.
Exactly. But put an equal blow on the other side of the brick going the opposite direction and the brick will be fine - it’s the hands that will absorb the blow.
The “egg in box” illustration above is really perfect, but this might also help:
> **[How Noise-canceling Headphones Work](https://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/audio-music/noise-canceling-headphone3.htm)**
>
> Noise-canceling headphones come in two types: active and passive. Find out how noise-canceling headphones reduce ambient noise.
> [@](#):
>
> **Active** noise-canceling headphones can do everything that passive ones can do – their very structure creates a barrier that blocks high-frequency sound waves. They also add an extra level of noise reduction by actively **erasing** lower-frequency sound waves. How do noise-canceling headphones accomplish this? They actually create their own sound waves that mimic the incoming noise in every respect except one: the headphone’s sound waves are 180 degrees out of phase with the intruding waves.
By creating a wave that “meets” it’s opposite, you effectively cancel both out.
At best the brain would have a wave of energy move through it, and without the sloshing and concussion against the inside of the skull, there’d be little to no actual effect. But most likely both hands would simply absorb the shock and damage of the blow, as they can’t crush a skull.
> [@](#):
>
> mutantmoose - ok ok so it was a monkey not a chimp. monkey chimp chonkey mink they’re all the same
So, it would have been substantially smaller, without those nasty canine teeth.
Still scary as crap I bet! I’ll stay in the car. . .
Why can’t we all just get along? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4X7NYRvILQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4X7NYRvILQ)
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/126 "2010-07-12T11:42:20Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> I’ve put people in the hospital so you’re lecturing the wrong person on what can and cannot be done with martial arts. The 3 stooges reference is not an argument and is as childish as the videos you listed. You’ve provided nothing in the way of dialog regarding the transmission or dissipation of the energy from the impact to the head.
>
> Did you watch the video of the brick being struck? How do you not understand that this was the result of the energy of the blow? Replace the brick with someone’s head and the damage to the brain is going to be substantial.
Just out of curiosity, did you notice that every breaking video linked showed them using only one hand, or did cognitive dissonance prevent you from noticing that?
Seems like a breaking contest would be the perfect opportunity for an educated martial artist to demonstrate the superior kinetic potential of the 3 Stooges strike. Do you wonder even slightly why you don’t see that?
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### Author:  [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/127 "2010-07-12T12:24:53Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> If the head doesn’t move, ALL of the energy is transmitted to the brain. It’s the same as if the skull wasn’t there and you hit the brain itself. It is the same laws of physics in play when a depth charge goes off near a submarine or a shaped charge warhead is used on a tank.
When a depth charge goes off near a submarine, it creates a massive pressure differential that cracks the hull of the sub.
A shaped charge creates a hot jet of molten metal that burns through the armor of a tank.
Since you aren’t shooting hot plasma through someone’s brain or causing their head to rupture, neither of these effects has anything to do with double-punching someone in the head. Unless, of course, you are using Ryu’s Hadouken attack from Street Fighter.:eek:
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### Author:  [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/128 "2010-07-12T13:05:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> I’ve put people in the hospital so you’re lecturing the wrong person on what can and cannot be done with martial arts.
You know what annoys me most about your arguments? That no one who’d spent even 5 minutes of his life working the heavy bag would ever think that you can get as much energy into a two-handed strike as a regular punch. The fact that you’re making these (frankly ridiculous) statements means that you have never even hit a heavy bag in your life. And then you go make claims about putting people in the hospital with your martial arts skills.
Go find a heavy bag. Then punch it. Then do your silly two-handed strike on it. Unless you have the worst punching technique in the world, you will notice immediately that you can punch much much harder than you can two-handed strike.
I don’t have a force meter, but I do have a heavy bag, and my left hook hits (in my estimation) about 20 times as hard as my best two-handed strike. It’ll be the same for anyone who knows how to throw a punch.
Your silly little demonstration (tap yourself in the chin with one hand, then two) completely misses the point.
I could accept that even a smart person might not know that knockouts are caused by the brain rebounding off the skull. The egg in a box thought experiment posted earlier should help clear that up, but I can accept someone not understanding that, even someone who claims to be a martial artist. But anyone who’s ever hit a heavy bag should know why you punch with one hand at a time, and if they can’t figure that out they should never discuss fighting again.
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### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/129 "2010-07-12T13:27:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> You’ve provided nothing in the way of dialog regarding the transmission or dissipation of the energy from the impact to the head.
>
> Did you watch the video of the brick being struck? How do you not understand that this was the result of the energy of the blow?
Have you ever seen anybody break a board by hitting it on both sides simultaneously?
Try it. Get one of those pine boards they use, balance it on edge standing up, and then hit it on both sides at once. Does it break?
Regards,
Shodan
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### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/130 "2010-07-12T14:10:14Z")
Magiver, if you “almost got knocked out” by a hipcheck to the chest, either you are made of paper, or you don’t understand what the term “knockout” means.
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### Author:  [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/131 "2010-07-12T14:47:11Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Wow, I thought chimps were like 2ft tall. Where do they keep 165 pounds?
The chimps you see on TV, roller skating around in business suits, are almost always juveniles, for the simple reason that they’re much less dangerous and easy to train. Until chimp trainers have mastered the two handed brain shockwave blow, you won’t see mature chimps doing those tricks.
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### Author:  [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/132 "2010-07-12T16:08:00Z")
Nevermind.
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### Author:  [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/133 "2010-07-12T16:14:55Z")
Magiver, what do you recommend if [the chimp knows martial arts](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYZZ84pg9nI)?
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/134 "2010-07-12T16:19:27Z")
What about mace, could I carry mace around chimps? Does that work if they’re angry? I’;ve always been a bit doubtful about the “use mace on bears” advice. I think the joke about “poop smells like pepper” rings true. . .
Seriously, I’m ready for Cecil to intervene here - How do can I best defend myself against an attacking chimp?
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/135 "2010-07-12T16:44:47Z")
I would like to chime in that I have some martial arts background, and I can’t imagine anyone who has seriously trained thinking that _Double Whopper Noodle Squish_ is more damaging than a conventional punch.
The only thing that I can imagine is Magiver’s illogical adherence to it is based on an axiomatic acceptance of _pressure points_ as magic.
On topic: I’d have my doubts about punching, but I would think something akin to the prone kicks they teach to women on rape prevention classes would be more effective. A man’s legs are likely stronger than a chimps’s arms and your shoes would offer some minor defense to their nails and teeth.
Seems like it’s just a bad situation in any case.
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### Author:  [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/136 "2010-07-12T17:01:12Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan;12675049
On topic: I’d have my doubts about punching, but I would think something akin to the prone kicks they teach to women on rape prevention classes would be more effective. A man’s legs are likely stronger than a chimps’s arms and your shoes would offer some minor defense to their nails and teeth.
Seems like it’s just a bad situation in any case.[/QUOTE]
I think you’re completely screwed no matter what you do unless you’re incredibly lucky, but I doubt a human can really react fast enough with a prone kick to a charging Chimp and hit with power effectively… I think a lucky punch is more likely than a knockout upkick, because once the upkick only annoys the chimp, you’re on your back with one leg extended, which is an awful place to be… unless you can armbar the chimp maybe. 😕 (joking)
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### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/137 "2010-07-12T17:05:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> I would like to chime in that I have some martial arts background, and I can’t imagine anyone who has seriously trained thinking that _Double Whopper Noodle Squish_ is more damaging than a conventional punch.
Ditto. And my instructor, an 8th degree black belt don suggested that a single armed, well executed blow to the chin was about as effective way of knocking out your opponent as exists. He also suggested that a trained boxer will triumph over another martial artist in a street fight _MOST_ of the time (due to very few street fights winding up on the ground, apparently - I’m certainly not an expert). All his support instructors with varying degrees of black belt support these claims.
At no point in all my years of training did he, or anyone else, suggest that that double handed chin blow would do much of anything to anybody.
So, with these two data points - my actual, real life instructor on one side, and some dude on the internet on the other, I’m afraid I’m going to have to stick with the single armed punch being the most powerful for us mere mortals.
I assume that due to his specially enhanced martial arts skills which enable him to generate sufficient force in a double armed stooge strike to hospitalize someone, **Magiver** also has had to register his hands as lethal weapons.
Finally, I’m going to say again - I don’t think _ANY_ of these techniques are going to help you against a fully grown, enraged chimp not only because they’re enraged and have really big fangs, but also because their skull is quite dissimilar to that of a human’s and the type of hit that would render a human unconscious won’t likely do anything to a chimp.
YMMV. My vote is still to run like hell if you can, or hide.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/138 "2010-07-12T17:12:17Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#):
>
> He also suggested that a trained boxer will triumph over another martial artist in a street fight _MOST_ of the time (due to very few street fights winding up on the ground, apparently
Bruce Lee said if you want to beat a guy who has been training martial arts for 10 years, just train boxing and wrestling for 6 months.
However, I disagree with the second part. Brazilian jiu-jitsu (one of the most practical and combat-tested martial arts) was born out of the fact that most street fights hit the ground almost immediately-- after one or two blows.
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### Author:  [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/139 "2010-07-12T17:14:10Z")
At this point I’m seriously thinking about writing to MMA fighter Bas Rutten and asking him whether he thinks he could beat a chimp, and how he would do it. Hopefully he would answer the question on his TV show.
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### Author:  [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)
#### Post date: [July 12, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-knock-out-an-enraged-chimp/545830/140 "2010-07-12T17:22:10Z")
> [@thirdname](#):
>
> At this point I’m seriously thinking about writing to MMA fighter Bas Rutten and asking him whether he thinks he could beat a chimp, and how he would do it. Hopefully he would answer the question on his TV show.
“I’m sorry chimp, but I’m gonna have to break your laig.”
“Then I’m gonna pound his head on the table maybe 10 times-- danga da danga da DANG.”
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