# Could you live in a society in which dueling was legal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 5, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618 "2011-08-05T17:55:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/41 "2011-08-06T05:07:20Z")
I’m good at not offending people, and I’m a damn good fencer. I’m fine with said arrangement. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/42 "2011-08-06T05:20:46Z")
\*A glove slap in a little old face will Get you satisfaction. Glove slap ba-a-beee … (Glove slap, baby) Glove slap, baby, glove slap! Glove slap, I don’t take crap! Glove slap, shut your big yap. \* ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/43 "2011-08-06T05:32:51Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I don’t see any downside to living there. If someone challenged me to a duel for some reason, I would just decline it and carry on as usual with my new, rich lifestyle. What’s there to lose? > > My answer would be very different if I were obligated to accept challenges. But since I’m not, it doesn’t affect me in the slightest. I might vaguely think it’s barbaric, in the same way I think that people in the US who agree to religious contract terms (Sharia Law/Judaic) are vaguely barbaric, but hey. Not my problem. Exactly. Why should it matter? The only problem I might have is if the mentally ill are not on the list of people who cannot accept or offer a challenge, as I’d be worried about people challenging (or, worse, pissing people off until they challenge him) just so they can commit suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/44 "2011-08-06T05:42:17Z")
Actually, I think it’s great. Count me in. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/45 "2011-08-06T14:04:42Z")
Depends…how’s the weather there? -D/a ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/46 "2011-08-06T17:51:26Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I got no issue with it. Consenting adults, go forth. This. Wouldn’t affect me much. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/47 "2011-08-06T19:21:22Z")
If a hired champion is acceptable, there will be very few duels. Boring middle-class schlubs like me will purchase duel insurance, and with our pooled funds, we’ll be able to hire highly competent swordsmen. A discreet insurance pin on one’s lapel should ward off most challenges. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/48 "2011-08-06T23:46:43Z")
> [@YaraMateo](#): > > Not only do I want to live there, I would be one of the professional duelers. Still not sure if I’d take money for it or work pro bono. No reason you can’t do both. Let the rich folks pay for your training and continual education, while helping out poor folks on the side. > [@Spiny\_Norman](#): > > If a hired champion is acceptable, there will be very few duels. Mayhap. It depends on how culturally acceptable it is to hire someone to fight on your behalf; I expect healthy men in the prime of their lives will be mocked and shunned for hiring champions. I also expect that there must be some requirement that, if one’s champion loses a death duel, the client is also executed on the spot. > [@](#): > > Boring middle-class schlubs like me will purchase duel insurance, and with our pooled funds, we’ll be able to hire highly competent swordsmen. A discreet insurance pin on one’s lapel should ward off most challenges. What’re you, an Etruscan or something? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/49 "2011-08-07T00:23:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > What’re you, an Etruscan or something? 🙂 Hmph. I’ll have you know that both me and my soul-mated-through-time husband are re-incarnated Etruscans, and we both deeply resent the implication that our culture may be either cowardly or cheapskates. (We can’t quite figure out which way the insult runs, exactly, but that makes it no less insulting!) As for dueling insurance, you’d have to be careful there, because some of the best duelists may not take your group insurance, because it doesn’t end up paying as well as the people who pay out of pocket individually. You don’t want to end up with a cut-rate duelist, now do you? I think I’d have a lot of fun being a champion. If you’re a champion, can you choose to only take certain kinds of challenges? Like I would only duel someone at hand-to-hand _not_ to the death, but I would duel pistols to the death. (Hand to hand to death can get so messy, really.) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/50 "2011-08-07T00:26:04Z")
What’s the deductable on dueling insurance anyway? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/51 "2011-08-07T00:32:00Z")
Sure, I’d do it. What the hell, I lived in West Dallas back in the 1950s; your place sounds safer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/52 "2011-08-07T00:37:18Z")
Absolutely. I would enjoy the benefits of a politer society. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/53 "2011-08-07T00:54:41Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Hmph. I’ll have you know that both me and my soul-mated-through-time husband are re-incarnated Etruscans, and we both deeply resent the implication that our culture may be either cowardly or cheapskates. (We can’t quite figure out which way the insult runs, exactly, but that makes it no less insulting!) Cowardly. Etruscans didn’t have enough lucre to be cheapskates, on account of being snivelling wimps who jumped at their own shadows. > [@](#): > > As for dueling insurance, you’d have to be careful there, because some of the best duelists may not take your group insurance, because it doesn’t end up paying as well as the people who pay out of pocket individually. You don’t want to end up with a cut-rate duelist, now do you? > > I think I’d have a lot of fun being a champion. If you’re a champion, can you choose to only take certain kinds of challenges? Like I would only duel someone at hand-to-hand _not_ to the death, but I would duel pistols to the death. (Hand to hand to death can get so messy, really.) The champions are licensed but not government employees, so I’m sure they get to choose whom they will and will not represent. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the dueling commission forbade fisticuffs to the death, though I’m hard-pressed to think of a good reason why. [red forman] If you’re not mad enough to bare-knuckle box, you’re not really mad. [/red forman] ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/54 "2011-08-07T22:51:24Z")
no doper can, i think. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/55 "2011-08-08T23:01:47Z")
Haven’t had the chance to read the whole thread yet _(about to go to bed when it caught my eye)_ but it reminded me of a fun short science-fiction story I read years ago. The basic scenario is that lifelike and totally immersive virtual-reality has been invented and is readibly available _(think The Matrix)_. In order to solve disputes dueling has come back into fashion and is facilitated by the virtual reality. Anyone can challenge anyone else to a duel over an issue, its best of three rounds, the challenged person gets to chose the means in the first and third round and the challenger the second round, and the results are legally binding. The fun part is that due to the face that its not real life the duel can involve any sort of combat imaginable, people are depicted dueling by means of swords, tanks, fighter jets, submarines all the way up to a global thermonuclear exchange! Now in my opinion _that_ would be a fun way to settle an argument, “You Sir are a cad and a scoundrel, I challenge you to a duel, Orbital Laser Cannons at dawn!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/56 "2011-08-08T23:44:36Z")
Interesting question. I think it depends on the culture: is there sufficient pressure to accept duels that it’s a real problem? Is it systematic of a culture sufficiently bloodthirsty it would be unpleasant or dangerous to live there? You have something very similar in real life considering moving to a country where legal or extra-legal deaths are common. Would you move to a country where there’s a death penalty? Would you move to a country where the death penalty is endemic, even for crimes you don’t really agree with? Would you move to a country where there’s much sectarian violence? It would depend what would happen to you, and how much you wanted to avoid seeming to support the regime. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/57 "2011-08-09T00:00:34Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > Interesting question. I think it depends on the culture: is there sufficient pressure to accept duels that it’s a real problem? Is it systematic of a culture sufficiently bloodthirsty it would be unpleasant or dangerous to live there? That’s pretty much what I was hoping the thread would be about. > [@](#): > > You have something very similar in real life considering moving to a country where legal or extra-legal deaths are common. Would you move to a country where there’s a death penalty? I live in one. > [@](#): > > Would you move to a country where the death penalty is endemic, even for crimes you don’t really agree with? Would you move to a country where there’s much sectarian violence? It would depend what would happen to you, and how much you wanted to avoid seeming to support the regime. I’d argue that none of those things is likely to be true of this hypothetical country; all the regulation surrounding dueling implies (to me) that death isn’t _casual_ there. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/58 "2011-08-09T00:02:48Z")
I would have no overriding moral objection to living in such a country, but I would not personally participate at all. If challenged, I would not accept. I don’t mind people thinking me a coward, so long as I’m not one of them. A point of order: You said that the professional duelists cannot issue challenges. Can they themselves be challenged? And if challenged, can they decline or hire a different professional, just like anyone else? I mean legally: Obviously nobody would ever hire a champion again who’s declined or delegated a fight. And yes, I am thinking of Honor Harrington, here, though the situation isn’t exactly analogous. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/59 "2011-08-09T00:04:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would have no overriding moral objection to living in such a country, but I would not personally participate at all. If challenged, I would not accept. I don’t mind people thinking me a coward, so long as I’m not one of them. > > A point of order: You said that the professional duelists cannot issue challenges. Can they themselves be challenged? And if challenged, can they decline or hire a different professional, just like anyone else? I mean legally: Obviously nobody would ever hire a champion again who’s declined or delegated a fight. Of course they can be challenged. I’m sure it would end badly for the challenger, though. As Robert B. Parker wrote in practically every Spenser novel, there’s a difference between amateurs and professionals. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618/60 "2011-08-19T23:01:45Z")
I note that the setup doesn’t limit the duel to swords or pistols. Therefore, if challenged to a duel, I could accept … on the condition that we duel with **banjos!** EDIT: Though now that I think about it, a banjo duel to the death might take an awfully long time… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-in-a-society-in-which-dueling-was-legal/591618.md?page=4)