# Could you live indefinitely on a boat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981 "2003-07-03T09:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Melanie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Melanie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melanie)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/21 "2003-07-03T12:27:28Z")
Sure you can. Didn’t you watch Kevin whats-his-name in ‘Waterworld.’ Apparently you just need to develop gills and a mysogenistic attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/22 "2003-07-03T12:32:28Z")
_Waterworld_ sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/23 "2003-07-03T23:33:43Z")
> [@](#): > > But do we really need oil? Plastics weren’t invented too long ago, so we should be able to regress to a non-plastic-using civilization. Think about this for a moment: Most things which are now made of plastic, used to be made of wood (well, if they existed at all), and wood is going to be even harder to get than oil. Fact is, oil is the one thing that we can currently mine from the sea floor. If you’re going to be mining metals, you might as well mine oil, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/24 "2003-07-04T00:06:42Z")
We can also mine [diamonds](http://www.no-barriers.com/diamonds.htm) from the sea floor and use them in trade with the primitive land-dwelling humans. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/25 "2003-07-04T04:03:06Z")
> [@](#): > > You’ll need a really good recycling program for the food waste and human waste Why? Just chuck the stuff overboard. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/26 "2003-07-04T04:14:20Z")
For metals, research “manganese nodules” on your favorite search engine. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/27 "2003-07-04T04:59:35Z")
Years ago a survivalist magazine published a piece about surviving a nuclear war in such a manner. Don’t remember any of the details, nor even what magazine it was printed in, but a web search might turn something up. As for plastics, the problem’s fairly simple: Recycle. There’ll still be losses, of course, but it’ll enable you to keep much of the plastics. You can do the same thing with light bulbs (if they’re white LEDs, they’ll last longer, BTW), and anything else that might break. I’d also imagine that paper could be made from seaweed. (As for toilet paper, if they’re nuclear powered, then a bidet in every bathroom should be no problem.) While it’d be impossible for them to recycle everything and some things aren’t going to be available at sea (beef, for instance) they could improvise, and the _lack_ of certain things, would make a great driving element for your book. I don’t have a copy of the book handy, but [Square Foot Gardening](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0878573410/qid=1057294717/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-5755904-5840039?v=glance&s=books) discusses how much space is needed to supply a human with food. The author’s [website](http://www.squarefootgardening.com/) might have the same information, but I don’t have time to search the site. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/28 "2003-07-04T06:22:44Z")
Well, if you’re going nuclear-powered, you’ll still need to return to port—eventually—for refueling. If your reactor is deep in the bowels of the ship, I don’t know how easy it would be to haul new fuel rods down there. It might require a MAJOR refit. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/29 "2003-07-04T06:29:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*We can also mine [diamonds](http://www.no-barriers.com/diamonds.htm) from the sea floor and use them in trade with the primitive land-dwelling humans. \*\* We? Are you in on it now? Great! Let’s launch! Thanks, **Tuckerfan** , I’ll check that out. Sounds exactly like what I’m looking for (although I’m leaning towards the seaweed and fish diet for now, makes a lot more room on deck for basketball courts and the like). As for the fuel rods, I thought they weren’t all that big, so why would it be such a problem to get them to the reactor? Is it at all realistic to mine uranium and make fuel rods ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/30 "2003-07-04T06:47:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > \*\*Thanks, **Tuckerfan** , I’ll check that out. Sounds exactly like what I’m looking for (although I’m leaning towards the seaweed and fish diet for now, makes a lot more room on deck for basketball courts and the like). > > As for the fuel rods, I thought they weren’t all that big, so why would it be such a problem to get them to the reactor? Is it at all realistic to mine uranium and make fuel rods ourselves? \*\* Well, fish and seaweed’s gonna get pretty old after a while (not to mention that there’s a serious risk that the oceans might be out of fish within our lifetimes). There’s also problems with ensuring proper nutrition on such a diet. The biggest problems with the fuel rods is that they’re _hazardous_! While the danger of the things going up like a bomb is so remote to be non-existant, getting a lethal dose of radiation is entirely possible. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/31 "2003-07-04T06:55:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > **Well, fish and seaweed’s gonna get pretty old after a while (not to mention that there’s a serious risk that the oceans might be out of fish within our lifetimes).** Really? Do you have a cite? About the fish disappearing, not fish and seaweed being a boring diet. We can always shoot a couple of seabirds. > [@](#): > > \*\*The biggest problems with the fuel rods is that they’re _hazardous_! While the danger of the things going up like a bomb is so remote to be non-existant, getting a lethal dose of radiation is entirely possible. \*\* Just tell me how much lead we have to wrap around them, and it shall be done. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/32 "2003-07-04T07:14:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > **Really? Do you have a cite? About the fish disappearing, not fish and seaweed being a boring diet. We can always shoot a couple of seabirds.** [Cite.](http://discover.npr.org/features/feature.jhtml?wfId=1289384) > [@](#): > > Fish stocks are down and coastal development is having a devastating affect on the waters. The report is just the latest of several that say the oceans and its fish populations are in danger of collapsing. There were a bunch of threads about it last month, as well, IIRC. And considering what seabirds tend to eat, I’d have pass on any offerings of “chicken surprise.” ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/33 "2003-07-04T07:34:10Z")
[This page](http://www.accessexcellence.org/AE/AEPC/WWC/1991/land.html) has some information about farmland yield, but I don’t know anything about its validity or the assumptions used. Anyway it says you can get 1600 kcal worth of rice per square meter per year. If you want to eat 1600 kcal per day, each person needs about 60x60 ft of area. If you convert the deck of the Exxon Valdez into a rice field it can feed about 50 people. The energy needed for desalination may be more difficult to obtain. According to [this page](http://urila.tripod.com/desalination.htm), the theoretical limit for efficiency is 2800 Joule/liter. [This page](http://www.cfbf.com/pdf/agfacts1.pdf) says an average American “eats” about 4500 gallons of water per day, includging all the water used to grow their food. Let’s say you can cut it down to 1/5 of that number - you still have to produce 1000 gallons of water per day per person. Assuming that actual desalination equipment is about 25% efficient (complete WAG) you need a 20x20 ft solar panel per person just to make the water. Actually I guess that’s only 1/10 of the farmland area. Cover 10% of the Valdez with solar panels, convert the rest into rice fields and you have a self-sustaining agricultural ship that can feed about 45 people. Of course if you need to manufacture your own fertilizer it may increase the energy requirement significantly. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/34 "2003-07-04T07:49:24Z")
There’s another possibility for generating water, that I didn’t think of until **scr4** ’s post. [Airwells!](http://www.airwellinc.com/) Here’s a [couple](http://www.rexresearch.com/airwells/airwells.htm) [more](http://www.buildsrilanka.com/cdp/P4_06.htm) links on them for you. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/35 "2003-07-04T07:52:35Z")
Hey! There’s even an [organization dedicated to them!](http://www.opur.u-bordeaux.fr/index.htm) ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/36 "2003-07-04T07:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*And considering what seabirds tend to eat, I’d have pass on any offerings of “chicken surprise.” \*\* Don’t they mostly eat fish? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/37 "2003-07-04T08:03:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scr4 \* > \*\*Don’t they mostly eat fish? \*\* They eat _anything_. Rotting carcasses, garbage, and [giant sea monsters](http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/americas/07/02/chile.science.reut/index.html) to name but a few things. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/38 "2003-07-04T10:27:16Z")
It might help if you told us slightly more about the background - do you imagine them just doing this for the sake of it, or being driven out of a country, or something like waterworld? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/39 "2003-07-04T10:37:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shade \* > \*\*It might help if you told us slightly more about the background - do you imagine them just doing this for the sake of it, or being driven out of a country, or something like waterworld? \*\* It’s basically just a group that wants to separate itself from the rest of the world as much as possible. I suppose they could buy a big bunch of land in Ukraine and start a new country, but this struck me as a more interesting concept. The rest of the world is very much intact and ticking on as it always has. That’s why offshore banking and the like might work as a source of revenue, but I’d prefer it if the boat could get around on its own as much as possible. As of now, only the uranium for the nuclear reactor seems like an insurmountable obstacle. Is it at all possible to mine it from the ocean floor and refine it ourselves? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981/40 "2003-07-04T10:38:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Priceguy \* > **We? Are you in on it now? Great! Let’s launch!** I’m in. I second the idea of a fleet of vessels; I don’t think it will be possible/practical/desirable to try to source all of the food from the sea; certainly seafood would feature prominently on the menu, but there’s no reason(apart from pesky ethics) why one of the ships could be a giant battery farm producing eggs and poultry - the feed can be made from all the non-human-food organisms that we indiscriminately trawl up - the waste products from the battery farm ship will make ideal fertiliser for the agricultural barges. If we choose our crops carefully, some of the non-human-edible parts of the plants we grow (corn cobs and stalks, turnip tops etc) can be processed for addition into the animal feed and for usable fibre (for clothing, sacks etc). Fish farming ought to be quite easy (if we need it); a number of large floating cages could be constructed. Mussels can be farmed on submerged ropes. The industrial/manufacturing ship is going to be the most challenging, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-live-indefinitely-on-a-boat/185981.md?page=3)