# Could you maybe have a debate WITHOUT the jargon? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403 "2002-11-28T21:24:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/1 "2002-11-28T21:24:00Z")
Seriously, kids, I’ve seen it all, and it just ain’t impressing me no more. Why, oh why do so many debates transmogrify from simple ideas into specialized vernacular built around debate? Can’t anyone debate an idea without going into code? I don’t know what a voir dire is, nor a straw man, nor a squicktastic felchini (granted, it’s probably pretty bad). Simply put (as is the point), if you can’t argue a point in plain english, you’re using the lingo as a crutch. That is all. Have a nice thanksgiving, you dirty, rotten, piece of shit, fuckmonkey, ballsniffing, dingleberry farming, maggot loving, cranial-rectal-inverted bastards. I love you. hahaha ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/2 "2002-11-28T21:31:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Why, oh why do so many debates transmogrify from simple ideas into specialized vernacular built around debate? Can’t anyone debate an idea without going into code? If ya can’t beat them, confuse them. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/3 "2002-11-28T21:40:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Cynical \* > **squicktastic felchini** Didn’t he win an Oscar a few years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/4 "2002-11-28T21:42:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Didn’t he win an Oscar a few years ago? I thought he made expensive, custom supercars, like the Felchini Goatesque. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/5 "2002-11-28T21:47:55Z")
Two thoughts: 1. Maybe it’s easier to use the term than go into a lengthy spiel … er, textual, long, drawn-out explanation (;)) every time you want to say it? Not unlike how [pi](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpiorigin.html) used to be expressed. 2. Why not just pop in and say “Hey, y’all, my name is C and can you explain what in the bejeezus this floozewhistle thing is that you’ve been talking about? You go from Carpenter ants to floozewhistle with nary an explanation of what the heck the thing is.”? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/6 "2002-11-28T22:14:44Z")
I can help a bit. Here’s a [straw man](http://64.70.189.40/costume/prods/08268618580.html). ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/7 "2002-11-28T22:41:09Z")
In the spirit of helpfulness that **Lib** has inspired, I can say with confidence that [voir dire](http://www.jri-inc.com/voirdire.htm) is not, in fact, the same as a [dire wolf](http://orcutts1.sbceo.k12.ca.us/public/dunlap/dire.html) (although you may prefer to be faced with the latter over the former if you do not enjoy pain). ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/8 "2002-11-28T22:44:33Z")
Why don’t you look up the terms and learn something instead of whining about your ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/9 "2002-11-28T23:28:23Z")
What, he can’t do both? [This page](http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html) has one of the better discussions on the dissection of logical arguments. It’s taken from a part of the alt.atheism Usenet FAQ, and as such, it does have an underlying agenda, but apart from that it’s quite thorough. Of course, it should be noted that in many cases, dense, difficult jargon is used specifically as an obscuritant measure, in order to make an argument harder to critique, or to imply that it’s a product of high intelligence. For instance, if you don’t understand what “obscuritant” means, you’re likely to just assume that my previous statement makes sense to those who understand it. It’s quite okay to call bullshit if you think that’s what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/10 "2002-11-29T02:03:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chula \* > \*\*Why don’t you look up the terms and learn something instead of whining about your ignorance? \*\* Well thank you, Mr. Helper. That’s a capital idea! I shall scurry away to the library post-hate in order to rectumfy my shoddy appearance in your oh-so wizened eyes. In the meantime, your statement is a fatherjohn, tempered from serlinism only by liberal doses of monty. And you are a giblet. ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/11 "2002-11-29T02:13:59Z")
MrC, you misspelled “haste”. (Hmmm, maybe I should be your editor…at least I’d always have work! ;)) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/12 "2002-11-29T02:51:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Cynical \* > \*\*Well thank you, Mr. Helper. That’s a capital idea! I shall scurry away to the library post-hate in order to rectumfy my shoddy appearance in your oh-so wizened eyes. In the meantime, your statement is a fatherjohn, tempered from serlinism only by liberal doses of monty. And you are a giblet. \*\* That’s Ms. chula. Thanks to the wonders of modern technology, you can discover the meaning of ordinary words without leaving the comfort of your own home! Even if you don’t own a dictionary! That device right in front of you holds the key. You might want to try these sites to start out. [http://www.google.com/](http://www.google.com/) > **[Dictionary.com Is The World’s Favorite Online Dictionary](https://www.dictionary.com/)** > > Dictionary.com is the world’s leading online source for English definitions, pronunciations, word origins, idioms, Word of the Day, and more. I didn’t know Monty came in liberal doses. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/13 "2002-11-29T03:34:14Z")
Actually, I tend to use [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) for dictionary/thesauras needs. 🙂 Why it’s not [a-z.com](http://a-z.com), your guess is as good as mine. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/14 "2002-11-29T03:35:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monster104 \* > \*\*MrC, you misspelled “haste”. (Hmmm, maybe I should be your editor…at least I’d always have work! ;)) > > 😃 \*\* You will notice, my little drone, that I also misspelled “rectify”. How does it feel when your servant becomes your master? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Monster104](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Monster104](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monster104)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/15 "2002-11-29T03:56:44Z")
> [@](#): > > You will notice, my little drone, that I also misspelled “rectify”. How does it feel when your servant becomes your master? Actually, I figured what with your fascination with rectums and all, that you simply had some kind of library fetish with anal-stimulation… ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/16 "2002-11-29T04:01:57Z")
**MrC** , I don’t think Ms chula understands the rimmifications that her statement being _tempered from serlinism_, is, (although saved somewhat by liberal doses of Monty) is probably not going to be somewhat, if not totally, and maybe in a smaller scale something that could probably be partially understood, to the point she, or anybody else for that matter, could tell heads from oranges from it. It’s probably not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Cynical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ee59a6/32.png) [@Mr.Cynical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Cynical)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/17 "2002-11-29T04:40:00Z")
Yes? ---
**Author:** ![imthjckaz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/imthjckaz/32/3223_2.png) [@imthjckaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/imthjckaz)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/18 "2002-11-29T04:51:53Z")
Probably. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/19 "2002-11-29T05:23:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Cynical \* > \*\*Actually, I tend to use [m-w.com](http://m-w.com) for dictionary/thesauras needs. 🙂 Why it’s not [a-z.com](http://a-z.com), your guess is as good as mine. \*\* Merriam-Webster. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2002, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403/20 "2002-11-29T05:27:08Z")
This thread is a shibboleth, a complete shibboleth. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-maybe-have-a-debate-without-the-jargon/139403.md?page=2)