# Could you please stop making straight men look like ignorant fucks? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207 "2003-06-02T20:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![plain\_jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@plain\_jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plain_jane)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/61 "2003-06-03T01:47:49Z")
I agree with the OP. It gets old fast, and it’s disrespectful. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/62 "2003-06-03T02:04:25Z")
So when a gay man makes sexual innuendos to or about a straight male, is that too considered to be offensive? Or does that never, ever happen here? ---
**Author:** ![j\_kat\_251](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@j\_kat\_251](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_kat_251)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/63 "2003-06-03T02:05:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Sadly, most straight guys are so clueless that they’d respond with a slow grin and a boozy fratboy chuckle. Well of course they are, you cunt. LOL STRAIGHT GUYS THINK WITH THEIR DICKS I’M A FUCKIN’ GENIUS ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/64 "2003-06-03T02:24:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Giraffe_ > It’s obnoxious and rude to make sexual remarks at people who by definition aren’t interested. Wow, that really doesn’t leave me with a heck of a lot of opportunities, you know what I mean? Seriously, though, I remember back in the fifth grade, when the “lesbian in a man’s body” joke was going around. I was a relentless little pedant even back then, so eventually I heard one of my friends say that and got sick of the obvious ill logic: Friend: I’m totally a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. Me: Dude, that means you want a sex change. Friend: What?? No it doesn’t! Me: Yeah, it does. If you’re a lesbian trapped in a man’s body, that means you want to be a woman who fucks women. You want to be a woman! Everyone Else: Bob\* wants to be a chick! That’s so GAY! HAHAHA! Pretty much killed that joke in my social circle. Anyway, keep fighting the Good Fight, **Esprix**. You may only have the one trick, but it’s a good, and important, one. [sub]\*Not his real name. His real name was Charles.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/65 "2003-06-03T02:26:30Z")
Actually, I don’t see **Tax Guy** ’s implications of censorship – what **Esprix** is saying is that there are certain things that you don’t say in this world to certain people because they’re offensive to them – a matter of **self** -censorship to behave as a civilized human being or the best facsimile thereto that you can muster. And to me there is a big difference between courtesy and censorship. One thought that occurred to me as I read through this thread is this: by definition, Lesbians are women who are attracted to each other, right? So two of these guys who claim to be a “Lesbian trapped in a man’s body” should therefore, logically, find each other attractive. Let’s keep a list thereof, and be sure to introduce them (presuming they’ve avoided being banned in the interim) whenever we get a match. Setting them up for a blind date in a community midway between where they live, for example… Whaddaya think? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/66 "2003-06-03T02:31:06Z")
I’m a girl who likes to sleep with girls (whee! I’m an expert!) and I didn’t sympathize with the OP at first. But reading the posts from other members who were offended… okay, I get it. Ask me again in five years, and I’m sure I’ll have heard it 400 times instead of 4, and will probably be sick of it, too. Yeah, “lesbian in a man’s body” is obnoxious. But is it so offensive that we need to, for example, offer to castrate those who say such a thing (in sarcastic jest, no less) without anesthesia? It seems like the first response to that comment was the best. “Gee, how original.” And then let it drop. This seems like a partial overreaction to me. On the other hand, Esprix is allowed to react however he wants to whatever he wants, and I’m not a huge fan of people who seem to think he should sit down and shut up. The boards would be a duller place without him, and I mean that in a complimentary manner. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/67 "2003-06-03T02:51:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CadburyAngel \* > \*\* > Yeah, “lesbian in a man’s body” is obnoxious. But is it so offensive that we need to, for example, offer to castrate those who say such a thing (in sarcastic jest, no less) without anesthesia? It seems like the first response to that comment was the best. “Gee, how original.” And then let it drop. This seems like a partial overreaction to me. > > \*\* This was exactly the point I was trying to make, but obviously I made it incorrectly. The statements are clearly unfunny, not clever and obnoxious. But to me, (as a straight girl who has STILL experienced people asking can I watch) I feel that since it wasn’t a drooling idiot guy leaning on you at a party but rather a dorky joke on a public message board known for hyper sexual one liners (sometimes), it’s probably worth a :rolleyes: at MOST. I mean there are enough idiots on this board who are HONESTLY gaybashing and saying horrible bigotted things, that I don’t think this is worth the vitriol. Being gay, YMMV. (but just for the record, lewd sexual suggestions of “can I see your tits”, “will you and your friend make out” and “can I watch you squeeze her butt?” are not limited to the GLBT community, trust me) ---
**Author:** ![Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Satisfying\_Andy\_Licious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satisfying_Andy_Licious)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/68 "2003-06-03T03:34:41Z")
## quote: Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious ## Go vent at the people who are really hurting you and stop sweating the small stuff. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*You mean like homophobic right-wing senators and ignorant demeaning straight guys? > > Esprix \*\* I see. A trite joke on a message board is as bad as a homophobic lawmaker. And a homophobic lawmaker is as bad as Hitler. So a trite joke is as bad as Hitler. It’s not always easy to keep up with the latest in **Indignity Escalation,** but there you go. Actually, Esprix, a way-out-of-line overreaction based on a legitimate complaint is often more offensive than the original complaint. Some Esprix decorum is in order. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/69 "2003-06-03T04:04:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by leander \* > **So when a gay man makes sexual innuendos to or about a straight male, is that too considered to be offensive?** Of course not, silly. If; however, the straight male reacts with disgust or in a general negative manner, **that is** offensive, because he’s clearly a homophobe! ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/70 "2003-06-03T04:32:44Z")
> [@](#): > > matt\_mcl, you take over for transgendered issues. Um… I don’t know _what_ you’ve heard… but I really think you could get someone more, um, qualified… ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/71 "2003-06-03T04:33:26Z")
Gah. ---
**Author:** ![CadburyAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@CadburyAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CadburyAngel)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/72 "2003-06-03T05:30:17Z")
Sounds like we’re on the same page, Jar. 🙂 (Cadbury Angel = Bi, btw. But has no ponies of any kind, and certainly none that know tricks.) ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/73 "2003-06-03T05:46:21Z")
I’m a gay man trapped in a man’s body. Oh wait… that’s gonna work out great! … I wonder if there isn’t a more interesting issue here. The examples posted are, of course, meant as rather lame jokes. But the reality is that sometimes the comment underlies something at once both paradoxical and sincere that shouldn’t just be swept under the rug as nasty. What’s paradoxical is the not at all offensive reality that straight men really are attracted to women whether gay or straight, it’s sort of sad the gender gets in the way of attraction. The paradox is that these same men probably could never get past the gender of the guys who are attracted to them. Oh wait, that’s not a paradox, it’s hypocrisy. But anyway… the sincerity part. The sincerity part is that sometimes, there really are men who are attracted to women without special regard to their own physical gender. There are men-creatures who think that all lesbians really need is dick. And then there are men who fall in love with a woman who happens to be a lesbian and are heartbroken when they realize that their own gender would make mutual attraction impossible. That’s sad, and it’s not necessarily hypocritical even if they would turn down gay men, because it’s just a sentiment. And farther along on that continuum, there are even men who love women and wish they could be a woman themselves, and indeed go out and do something about it. So why is the joke not funny? Obviously because it’s insulting, but I think there’s something just as important to see alongside of that. It’s because, at least in our hoped for world of sexual understanding and tolerance (speaking to all you sexually enlightened Dopers here), the words express a perfectly potentially true and normal sentiment that’s being, rather confusingly, treated as a joke. It’s like telling a joke that goes “So, anyways it \rained today\.” (drum-fill) T he fact that someone FINDS it funny is the problem, not the words themselves. It’s the exact same thing that’s unfunny about all the “ha ha: you’re gay!” crap. It’s not funny because, yeah, guess what kids, some people are gay, and like, so what? And some men really DO feel like they’re women in men’s bodies (and lesbian women at that): so what? I think one of the best ways to respond to the joke is to treat it as if it were sincere. Advise the person that, actually, they live in a wonderful medical age where, if they are truly dedicated financially and emotionally they really can become the lesbian that they feel is their true sexual identity. Or agree with them that yes, it’s too bad that gender stands in the way of sexual attraction, and we’ve all been there (and I’m betting we all have: had the hots for a straight boy or girl, or had a gay boy or girl after you if you happen to be straight), but that’s just the way it is sometimes, and we’ve all learned to deal. And at least in communities like the Dope, where the majority of the board seems pretty agreed upon gay rights and not particularly amused by “ha ha fag!” jokes, I think it’s actually kinda cool seeing someone’s lame lesbian joke drop like a stone. Maybe they’ll have a moment, look around, and suddenly realize that they are the lame outsider in a community that’s long ago gotten beyond whatever issues they have with non-straight people. Enough rambling: I’m not even going to get into MY twisted sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Demise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@Demise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Demise)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/74 "2003-06-03T06:09:25Z")
> [@](#): > > **Could you please stop making straight men look like ignorant fucks?** Uh, so how do these comments make anyone, besides those that made them, look like “ignorant fucks”? ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/75 "2003-06-03T07:00:40Z")
**Khadaji** , if you check the Nemo thread, you’ll see that Esprix’s anger is directed at **Baldwin’s** comment, not yours. I think most people got the irony in your joke; if not, your apology here makes clear your intentions were right and proper. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/76 "2003-06-03T07:55:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Chief Crunch \* > \*\*Of course not, silly. If; however, the straight male reacts with disgust or in a general negative manner, **that is** offensive, because he’s clearly a homophobe! \*\* I think the point is that no matter how we try to act on our ‘best behaviour’, all of us – gay and straight alike – tend to make stupid, ill-conceived comments based at times on our libidos. Perhaps that is what makes us men…or in the least, human. I doubt any one of us has not made a silly comment that has _at the very least_ offended **someone**. And yes, let he who is without sin… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Hand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mr.Hand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Hand)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/77 "2003-06-03T08:17:58Z")
You know, I had never realized that the “I’m a lesbian trapped in a man’s body” quip was offensive. Can’t remember the last time I used it, but I know I have. Consider my consciousness raised. Thread officially Not Useless. Ignorance has been fought. Gold star for **Esprix**. \*I’m a little drunk right now so I don’t know if post sounds like it’s sarcastic but it’s not supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/78 "2003-06-03T10:55:05Z")
**Apos** , that was a great post. I have an awful lot of sympathy for the viewpoint of the OP. I’ve commented IRL in the past on the same track. I’m surprised, however, that noone has mentioned that one of the linked threads is entitled “first lesbian experience” and the OP is little more than “why did I wait so long?” If that isn’t an invitation for the kind of innuendo and comment that forms 70% of MPSIMS anyway then I don’t know what is. I don’t care what the gender or sexual orientation of the poster is. If you post sexual content in a forum like MPSIMS then you’re going to get lewd commentary back. Remarking that you are a lesbian is one thing. Talking about the lesbian (or any other kind of ) sex that you just had is another entirely. pan ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/79 "2003-06-03T11:48:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\* It’s almost like clockwork, some new person popping up with one of these dipshit comments on a regular basis. Of course, they get jumped on, and if they have more than two brain cells, they’ll figure out they were being stupid and obnoxious and will knock it off, as evidenced by **blessedwolf** ’s note above. \*\* But **Blessedwolf** wasn’t jumped on. He overheard someone expaining what they thought of it. Had this person jumped on him, verbally, his reaction may have been different. Here’s my point: If you say “ **spooje** , what you said was offensive and/or hurtful for these reasons, please be more considerate”, I would likely think about it as **blessedwolf** did. However, if you simply said “fuck off, you ignorant jerk, how dare you blah blah…” I don’t think I would be nearly as willing to see your POV, as I would be in defense mode. I grant you, it is an idiotic joke and very unfunny. And I can certainly see where it would be offensive. If you tell someone it is unfunny when they use it I think they will consider stopping. If you attack them for using it, they may well simply label you hysterical or worse and continue using it, although maybe not in your presence. Dis that make _any_ sense? Sometimes I do not express ideas well. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/80 "2003-06-03T11:58:23Z")
I don’t know, I was far more irked at the “you have twice as many chances for a date on a Saturday night” comment in the second linked thread. Irked. Not offended. Just irked. Then again, I’m not a lesbian or a gay man…so what do **I** know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207.md?page=5)