# Could you please stop making straight men look like ignorant fucks? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207 "2003-06-02T20:10:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/81 "2003-06-03T12:11:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satisfying Andy Licious \* > Some **Esprix decorum** is in order. :dubious: And how long have you been waiting to include _that_ in a post? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/82 "2003-06-03T12:21:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Apos \* > \*\*And some men really DO feel like they’re women in men’s bodies (and lesbian women at that): so what? > > \*\* I find that offensive. No. Seriously. FTM’s are NOT men who feel like women. They are NOT men who want to be women. They _are_ women. This is the problem I have with the ‘lesbian in a man’s body’ joke. The life of a transgendered person is filled with enough suffering as it is. If that person is gay things are worse still. Many shrinks will not diagnose a patient as gender disphoric if they express an attraction to the members of the gender they identify as. Without that diagnosis, you can’t get hormone therapy or surgery. But transexual lesbians and transexual gay men do exist. ``` Yes, that's a small group. But, the amount of suffering they go through is tremendous. Then, their lives are turned into jokes on t-shirts. ``` We actually have a Doper who was born a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. ``` I wonder how she feels about all this. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/83 "2003-06-03T12:25:03Z")
**SciFiSam** and **Tusculan** - thanks for the responses. I’m glad to find that not everyone wants to dismember me! ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/84 "2003-06-03T12:37:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\*OK, folks, listen up - evidently I’m getting saddled with One Trick Pony[sup]TM[/sup] status again. Esprix \*\* Thats because you ARE a one trick pony. You remind me of Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. They get amped up so often over so many different things that they have become a parody of themselves and no one takes them seriously anymore. You bitch about so much shit and criticise everyone (who isn’t gay) about every little thing they say that you have become a fucking joke. I think you did this shit to me a long while back. Once you have been on this board for a while you start to gloss over any pit threads started by Esprix because they all sound the same “blah blah blah offensive to gays blah blah blah offensive to lesbians blah blah blah I am glad I am not straight blah blah blah your an asshole blah blah blah…” Just shut up already. Christ… And on my way out the door, what the fuck is this gem supposed ot mean? > [@](#): > > It’s idiots like you that make me want to make more lesbian friends because I am ashamed to be the same gender as the ignorant FUCKS that say these things. What? The more lesbian friends you have the less of a man you will be? What the hell are you saying here? You sound like those guys who make a point of telling people that they have black/gay/lesbian friends to gain street cred. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/85 "2003-06-03T12:41:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamadryad \* > \*\*I don’t know, I was far more irked at the “you have twice as many chances for a date on a Saturday night” comment in the second linked thread. > > Irked. Not offended. Just irked. > \*\* Blame Woody Allen. He coined (or at least widely published) _that_ quip (about bisexuals) some 30+ years back. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/86 "2003-06-03T12:45:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*Blame Woody Allen. He coined (or at least widely published) _that_ quip (about bisexuals) some 30+ years back. \*\* And I’m sure some wit quipped “lesbian trapped in a man’s body.” I don’t see anyone giving everyone since THEN a pass, either. ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/87 "2003-06-03T12:58:48Z")
Either way, I would like to just say “Thanks!” to Esprix and the other queer-boys for sticking up for the girls on this one 🙂 Mwah! FTR, I don’t find the comment specifically offensive, just sad, and depressing and angering and pathetic and just plain _not funny_. Why? Cos I’ve heard it a hundred time, and gotten shit when I didn’t say yeah, and when I didn’t laugh it up when they backtracked. It’s not funny cos on the rare occasions when I go to a queer club cos I want to have a dance with my wife, I get the same damned thing, I have been offered fucking money to join in, or even “just watch” on numerous occasions. That’s why its not funny. You guys have the whole fucking world, my sex-life has to be all about you too? ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/88 "2003-06-03T13:26:55Z")
I’m a little curious how a thinking person could suggest that all straight men are guilty of this or by extension that gay men have never said anything offensive to others. I agree that the LIAMB comments are juvenile and boorish but a shotgun backlash approach is rarely right on target. Fighting an offensive comment by suggesting all straight men are ignorant fucks? Your methods likely could use a bit of refinement. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/89 "2003-06-03T13:40:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DocCathode \* > \*\*I find that offensive. > > No. Seriously. > > FTM’s are NOT men who feel like women. They are NOT men who want to be women. They _are_ women. > This is the problem I have with the ‘lesbian in a man’s body’ joke. The life of a transgendered person is filled with enough suffering as it is. If that person is gay things are worse still. Many shrinks will not diagnose a patient as gender disphoric if they express an attraction to the members of the gender they identify as. Without that diagnosis, you can’t get hormone therapy or surgery. But transexual lesbians and transexual gay men do exist. > > ``` > Yes, that's a small group. But, the amount of suffering they go through is tremendous. Then, their lives are turned into jokes on t-shirts. > > ``` > > We actually have a Doper who was born a lesbian trapped in a man’s body. > > ``` > I wonder how she feels about all this. ** > > ``` **Doc** , your point is a completely valid one. But I suspect strongly that **Apos** was not being offensive, but dealing with “objective” vs. “subjective” in what he said. To paraphrase **Eve** ’s “coming out” post, “I try to be a lady. But I was brought up to be a gentleman.” Quite simply, whatever the interior perception of a MTF transsexual might be, and I in no way am casting aspersions on their interior identity, their physical appearance prior to presenting as a woman is that of a male. And the obnoxious remark that **Esprix** took umbrage at to start this thread is for them a description of reality – they are, by their own self-perceptions, women (straight, bi, or Lesbian) who are literally “trapped in a man’s body.” **KellyM** would have more class than to say something of this sort – but if she did, it would not be a joke but a literal truth about how she perceives herself. And, though I gather that **Eve** is a straight woman in terms of her sexuality, with the relevant modification it would have been the truth for her as well. Which is, of course, in no way to defend the typical idjit who utters this pseudo-witticism. Perhaps the funniest comeback I’ve ever seen to the remark was a young man I knew some years ago, who was a good-hearted person in a tough, street-smart environment, and whose sister was a Lesbian. When somebody came off with that line, he pulled out the hunting knife that he was carrying, and commented that he’d be quite willing to assist the guy who claimed to be a Lesbian trapped in a man’s body, by performing the first part of the gender reassignment surgery then and there. For some strange reason the guy quickly declined the offer! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Equal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Equal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/90 "2003-06-03T13:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > _Male chauvinist hetero pig passin’ through to fix the coding - CF_ \*\* Coldfire is God. ---
**Author:** ![Gorgon\_Heap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f475e1/32.png) [@Gorgon\_Heap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorgon_Heap)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/91 "2003-06-03T14:00:46Z")
I’ve put off coming in here for a while, but now that I have seen a little more of the arguments, I have a question. Nearly all the gays/lesbians here have said they have heard the lame jokes a gazillion times and don’t find them funny. How do you react when you hear these things in real life? Do you explode on the offender or roll your eyes and pretend they don’t exist? If you really have heard all this so many times, I find it hard to believe you would still have the energy to have a fit and berate _every single person_ you ran into and said some of this crap. The people who have said the lame jokes here on the boards are obviously either immature, or trolls, and so don’t deserve the attention they are now getting. Why not just roll your eyes (_not_ in a post and ignore them? Is it really worth this much effort when it is a vast minority of fools who speak to and about gays/lesbians the way that has been offending you? ---
**Author:** ![Mearl\_Dox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@Mearl\_Dox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mearl_Dox)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/92 "2003-06-03T14:18:24Z")
I have different reactions. Sometimes I just ignore it, if it’s someone I barely know. I always think less of the person. If it’s someone I like otherwise, I’ll talk to them about it, and I’ve had friends stop saying things like that once they realize it’s offensive. I don’t spend time talking on the net with anyone who talks like this, because unlike real life, on the net there’s no need to associate with people I find offensive. Vast minority? Not all the time, IRL. In fact, pretty damn rarely when I’m not just with my circle of friends. Most people think like this. And that’s sad. If we can fight a little ignorance, all the better. It’s a lot safer to ‘rant’ here than in real life, where gaybashing isn’t restricted to just words. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/93 "2003-06-03T14:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Polycarp \* > \*\*Perhaps the funniest comeback I’ve ever seen to the remark was a young man I knew some years ago, who was a good-hearted person in a tough, street-smart environment, and whose sister was a Lesbian. When somebody came off with that line, he pulled out the hunting knife that he was carrying, and commented that he’d be quite willing to assist the guy who claimed to be a Lesbian trapped in a man’s body, by performing the first part of the gender reassignment surgery then and there. For some strange reason the guy quickly declined the offer! 🙂 \*\* **Polycarp** , you’ve just given me a WTF moment. Normally anything you post just leaves me blinking and thinking “I wish I’d said that”, but not this time. In what way is the level of violence offered appropriate to the supposed offence? Hey, I’d have “quickly declined” too. Unless I _really_ fancied my chances at overpowering the sick fuck and then beating seven kinds of shit out of him as an urgent warning to never, _never_, _ **never** _ try to make his point with a sharp instrument again. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/94 "2003-06-03T14:52:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **OK, folks, listen up - evidently I’m getting saddled with One Trick Pony[sup]TM[/sup] status again. matt\_mcl, you take over for transgendered issues. iampunha, bisexual comments are yours. gobear, I hope I can continue to count on you on the gay male front. Obviously I need to give up on the whole lesbian thing, so andygirl, I’ll leave that up to you. I’ll take a back seat for a while and work on The Gay Agenda[sup]TM[/sup] while you guys promote our nefarious schemes.** How come I **never** get picked to be on the team to advance our Nefarious Schemes? I feel like I’m back in grade school waiting to get picked for the dodgeball team. grumblemutterbitchwhineI’m_way_gayerandmorepissedoffthanEsprixmuttergrumblekillyouallwhinebitchmoan ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/95 "2003-06-03T15:04:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **OK, folks, listen up - evidently I’m getting saddled with One Trick Pony[sup]TM[/sup] status again. matt\_mcl, you take over for transgendered issues. iampunha, bisexual comments are yours. gobear, I hope I can continue to count on you on the gay male front. Obviously I need to give up on the whole lesbian thing, so andygirl, I’ll leave that up to you. I’ll take a back seat for a while and work on The Gay Agenda[sup]TM[/sup] while you guys promote our nefarious schemes.** My, my, my … whatever will you do with all those toasters!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/96 "2003-06-03T15:09:17Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t consider a lame joke that basically translates to “I admire your sexuality and fantasize about joining in”, or “I’m a dumb horny male” to be on the top of the offensiveness hit parade. YMMobviouslyV. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > **Sadly, most straight guys are so clueless that they’d respond with a slow grin and a boozy fratboy chuckle.** Way to fight gender stereotypes! OK, Esprix, I see your point. It is offensive to suggest that a person of a particular orientation might want to experience sex of the opposite orientation. The mere mention of it, even in lame jest, is a pittable offense. Gotcha, Consider me enlightened. May I ask how you reconcile this with a statement that you made a few months ago, when you said – in all seriousness – that a particular straight male getting forcibly anally raped would do him “a world of good”? ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/97 "2003-06-03T15:22:11Z")
“Esprix decorum” has _surely_ got to be pun of the year. I echo \*\*Ethilrist[/] in wondering how long _that_ one’s been on the back burner. pan ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/98 "2003-06-03T15:50:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > **Sadly, most straight guys are so clueless that they’d respond with a slow grin and a boozy fratboy chuckle.** _THE VERY NEXT LINE_ > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > **Ignorance is fought one person at a time.** I’d comment, but the irony is too thick in here. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/99 "2003-06-03T16:08:48Z")
Color me in the same camp with **lieu** and **Hamlet**. I fail to see how making sweeping generalizations about a segment of society based on a single person is any better than making sweeping generalizations about a segment of society based on a single person. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207/100 "2003-06-03T16:12:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equal \* > \*\*Coldfire is God. \*\* No, **Coldfire** is God trapped in a man’s body. [sub]Ow, stop throwing things at me![/sub] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-please-stop-making-straight-men-look-like-ignorant-fucks/179207.md?page=6)