# Could you really freeze a person's arm and shatter it with a hammer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 8, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367 "2020-04-08T19:08:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/21 "2020-04-09T15:31:04Z")
This was a scene in the Jean Claude Van Dam movie TimeCop in the 1980’s. Spray the baddie’s arm with liquid nitrogen for 5 seconds, and a good swift kick shatters it. Now consider that you can toss a moderately thick steak on a roaring flame and the center (half an inch in) will still be raw a minute or several later. Burning at the stake (not steak) was a drawn-out torture, especially as it started with the feet before the torso. Why would cold conduct through flesh any faster than heat? Plus, there’s fluid (blood) conveying warmth from the torso. Even at extreme temperatures, it takes a while. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/22 "2020-04-09T15:44:57Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > How about another example? In the Netflix animated series Love, Death, and Robots,… > > (Spoiler removed) > > …Whattabout that? Plausible? > > And I also gotta say, if you haven’t watched it please do. Isn’t vacuum a remarkably good insulator, in that heat transfer would only occur through radiation, not conduction/convection? The reason the radiators on manned spacecraft are often so large, and objects are often rotated to help with thermal equilibrium. I’d think it would take awhile. Was the limb tourniqueted or was blood still able to circulate? EDIT: I see Chronos, among others, already got to the TQ and blood part. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/23 "2020-04-10T02:12:07Z")
Take a steak out of the freezer and hit it with a hammer. It won’t shatter. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/24 "2020-04-10T04:31:41Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Take a steak out of the freezer and hit it with a hammer. It won’t shatter. It will if it is old and cracked, and brittle. The steak might be slightly scuffed. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/25 "2020-04-10T05:00:16Z")
What if the arm was left submerged in the liquid nitrogen for, like, month and then thwacked immediately after taking it out? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/26 "2020-04-10T12:38:56Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It will if it is old and cracked, and brittle. Might break, but it won’t shatter. I think the scene in the OP is like when Mr. Wizard immerses a rose in liquid nitrogen for a few seconds then taps it and it [shatters into dust](https://demos.smu.ca/index.php/demos/thermo/77-flowers-in-liquid-nitrogen). That won’t happen with your arm. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/27 "2020-04-10T15:52:55Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > This was a scene in the Jean Claude Van Dam movie TimeCop in the 1980’s. Spray the baddie’s arm with liquid nitrogen for 5 seconds, and a good swift kick shatters it. > > Now consider that you can toss a moderately thick steak on a roaring flame and the center (half an inch in) will still be raw a minute or several later. Burning at the stake (not steak) was a drawn-out torture, especially as it started with the feet before the torso. Why would cold conduct through flesh any faster than heat? Plus, there’s fluid (blood) conveying warmth from the torso. Even at extreme temperatures, it takes a while. I think that’s actually a very good analogy. A steak is going to start say 70 degrees Fahrenheit, and the grill is probably 500F or so, a difference of 430F. A living arm is close to 100F, and liquid nitrogen is -330F, a difference of 430F. The heat transfer to the outer surface is going to be different, grill to steak vs arm to LN2, but the conduction through the meat is going to be about the same rate (again, that’s assuming there’s no blood flowing in the arm). ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/28 "2020-04-10T15:59:27Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > It will if it is old and cracked, and brittle. > > Might break, but it won’t shatter. I think the scene in the OP is like when Mr. Wizard immerses a rose in liquid nitrogen for a few seconds then taps it and it [shatters into dust](https://demos.smu.ca/index.php/demos/thermo/77-flowers-in-liquid-nitrogen). That won’t happen with your arm. I think that you missed that Atamasama thought the \*hammer \*might shatter, given the qualifications (old/cracked/brittle). > [@Atamasama](#): > > It will if it is old and cracked, and brittle. > > The steak might be slightly scuffed. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/29 "2020-04-10T17:17:17Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Season 1, Episode 23 of the X-Files (titled “Roland”) featured this trope, where a guy was murdered by having his head shoved in a vat of liquid nitrogen, then he’s left to shatter on the lab floor. > > Here’s a still of the guy getting shoved in the vat. > [https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SQdzQhxYYJ4/V503pXsYQmI/AAAAAAAAAfc/FrrnaoqDM3gmC\_NpjykWZunJWbcM2QuQwCLcB/s1600/nitro650.jpg](https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SQdzQhxYYJ4/V503pXsYQmI/AAAAAAAAAfc/FrrnaoqDM3gmC_NpjykWZunJWbcM2QuQwCLcB/s1600/nitro650.jpg) There’s a similar scene in Jason X ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/30 "2020-04-10T19:28:46Z")
When I took a course on computer modelling of thermal processes, they described it like this - imagine the item divided into tiny cubes, say 1mm on a side. Each is at a specific temperature. you apply a known temperature change to on surface, and assume as each cube changes temperature, as the clock ticks, it conduct X% of that thermal change to its neighbour(s) if they are at a different temperature - how fast does it travel through the item, from cube to cube? By experiment, you can get an estimate of the factor of thermal conductivity rate. As I mention with the steak example above, the thermal conductivity rate of flesh (which is solid, no convection currents, so strictly conduction) is not that high. It could take a long time for an arm to freeze solid, just as it takes half an a hour or more for the center of a roast to reach cooking temperature. (Not being that domestic, I have no idea how long it takes to make a 5-inch-diameter roast un-raw, but I’m going to guess 375F for at least 20 minutes to get the center appreciably warm. Also remember the state change for water - liquid to solid - is 80 calories per cc (? It’s been a long time…) so there’s additional cooling required above and beyond going from 20°C to 0°C and you need to be significantly below freezing for the shatter effect, and water has the higher specific heat compared to most media. > [@](#): > > Specific heat of Nitrogen is 1.04 J/g K. Latent Heat of Vaporization of Nitrogen is 2.7928 kJ/mol > The specific heat of water is 1 calorie/gram °C = 4.186 joule/gram °C which is higher than any other common substance ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/31 "2020-04-10T20:34:56Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I think that you missed that Atamasama thought the \*hammer \*might shatter, given the qualifications (old/cracked/brittle). :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2020, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/32 "2020-04-10T21:02:33Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > How about another example? In the Netflix animated series Love, Death, and Robots, an > > astronaut tears off the sleeve of her suit to intentionally freeze her arm and expose it to vacuum so she can break it off. > > Whattabout that? Plausible? No. Human skin is resilient enough to allow exposure to vacuum; the vacuum of space would be a good insulator so the arm wouldn’t freeze. See > **[Human Exposure To Vacuum: Part 1](https://oikofuge.com/human-exposure-to-vacuum-part-1/)** > > The topic of explosive decompression generates a lot of nonsense, particularly in science fiction films and television series, but also scattered across the internet generally. We actually know quite a lot about what would happen if a human being... > **[Human Exposure To Vacuum: Part 2](https://oikofuge.com/human-exposure-to-vacuum-part-2/)** > > In my first post on this topic, I discussed some physics and physiology, in an effort to predict and explain the likely consequences for a person exposed to the vacuum of space. Go to Part 1 In this part, I'm going to look at the evidence from animal... specifically the segment about Joseph Kittinger’s hand, which was exposed to vacuum and merely swelled up a bit. Exposing a whole arm might result in the formation of vapour bubbles, which could stop the heart- but no freezing. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/33 "2020-04-11T19:12:26Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > No. Human skin is resilient enough to allow exposure to vacuum; the vacuum of space would be a good insulator so the arm wouldn’t freeze. > See > [https://oikofuge.com/human-exposure-to-vacuum-part-1/](https://oikofuge.com/human-exposure-to-vacuum-part-1/) > [The Oikofuge: Human Exposure To Vacuum: Part 2](https://oikofuge.com/human-exposure-to-vacuum-part-2/) > specifically the segment about Joseph Kittinger’s hand, which was exposed to vacuum and merely swelled up a bit. > > Exposing a whole arm might result in the formation of vapour bubbles, which could stop the heart- but no freezing. You might get nitrogen bubbles and the bends (depending on air mixture being breathed), and extreme bends could cause strokes and death, but any vapour embolism, one assumes, would turn back to liquid once it proceeded toward an area with more pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367/34 "2020-04-12T01:12:20Z")
No opinion about shattering flesh but Snowpiercer is a kick ass movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-really-freeze-a-persons-arm-and-shatter-it-with-a-hammer/851367.md?page=1)