# Could you remain friends with a person who left their spouse because the spouse had been crippled? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 29, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480 "2014-12-29T22:18:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/81 "2014-12-30T18:13:23Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Both he and she have said her disability were not the reason for the divorce (which occurred 11 years later). Nor was Vietnam. from wikipedia Ross Perot later said, “After he came home, he walked with a limp, she [Carol McCain] walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona [Cindy McCain, his current wife] and the rest is history.”[21] Carol’s three children were initially upset with John McCain about the divorce, but later reconciled.[19] ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/82 "2014-12-30T18:17:11Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > from wikipedia > Ross Perot later said, “After he came home, he walked with a limp, she [Carol McCain] walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona [Cindy McCain, his current wife] and the rest is history.”[21] Carol’s three children were initially upset with John McCain about the divorce, but later reconciled.[19] You’re using not just Wikipedia as a cite, but a statement from Ross Perot? Even assuming Perot actually said that, what makes you think he’d have any special insight into the McCains’ marriage? The above should not be read to imply that John McCain’s current wife is not an android. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/83 "2014-12-30T18:29:58Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Several posters have alluded to the possibility that Geoff has had a personality change and no longer wants a partner but a nursemaid. Suppose we continue that scenario. Suppose Geoff is the one who can no longer provide emotional support and love. Suppose he demands 24/7 attendance and complete control of Erica’s time and life. Do Erica’s vows demand that she continue to give him everything he demands? I’m having a hard time reconciling that scenario with what \*\*Skald \*\*posted in the OP: > [@](#): > > The man she married, she told you, was vital, strong, active, and exciting–not a wheelchair-bound cripple. **She’s still young, she tells you; she wants to travel the world as they planned before their married** , seeing the sights, trying new and exciting vistas, and having adventures.\*\* Thus she plans to file for divorce\*\*. She won’t be seeking spousal support, as she is still working; **she just wants to be gone.** emphases added, of course. But fine. If he’s emotionally abusive, it’s the same as you’d deal with any spouse. Ask them to stop, explain your needs, see if they’re willing to work on it, and so forth. Divorce is a last resort. But that’s essentially saying the disability had no bearing on the case, which is basically not the hypothetical. I am coming at this assuming that the disability is causing her to seek divorce. Otherwise, it’s a silly question. The quadriplegia would be extraneous information, like his hair color. I don’t think that’s interesting to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/84 "2014-12-30T18:30:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well… are any of those _bad_ reasons to stick around if those things are important to the person(s) involved? If either party is unhappy with the arrangement, then I think they are bad reasons. If both people like it, then I see no problem. I often see situations where neither person actually wants to be in the marriage anymore, but they think the forces keeping them from separating are insurmountable, so they stay married with unhappiness all around. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/85 "2014-12-30T18:31:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You’re using not just Wikipedia as a cite, but a statement from Ross Perot? Even assuming Perot actually said that, what makes you think he’d have any special insight into the McCains’ marriage? > > The above should not be read to imply that John McCain’s current wife is not an android. Granting all that, I happen to like Cindy and Mehgan McCain. I’m not buying the “mutual parting” crap they are now peddling. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/86 "2014-12-30T18:39:55Z")
But you’re pretty sure it was about Cindy’s disfigurement? Not his being a captive in a small cell in Vietnam for six years? Not growing apart? Not him having a midlife crisis and banging PYTs? 11 years after her car accident, 7 years after he got home from Vietnam, he sued for divorce. I just can’t conclude it was her physical disability that led to it. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/87 "2014-12-30T18:41:06Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think the mistake is that people act as if marriage is a “lifetime commitment”. Marriage is a legal contract between two people which represents a pooling of certain resources and affords certain legal and financial benefits. People say “for life” and often that is the initial intention. But in practical terms a marriage is no more a lifetime commitment than any other contract. > I generally wouldn’t judge any person who choses to end their marriage. What is someone supposed to do? Be miserable for the rest of their life because they entered a contract with someone 10 years ago? What about the vows, often personally written? Of course one can dissolve one’s legal contract (depending on where you live), but if you vow eternal commitment, surely you must intend to honor that or your word means nothing. I can excuse overconfidence in your own ability to predict the future and making vows you intend to keep as not being a moral failing, but marrying someone and pledging unconditional eternal commitment to them while thinking to yourself about how you can always bail later if you feel like it seems quite crappy. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/88 "2014-12-30T18:41:47Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I’m having a hard time reconciling that scenario with what \*\*Skald \*\*posted in the OP: > > emphases added, of course. > > But fine. If he’s emotionally abusive, it’s the same as you’d deal with any spouse. Ask them to stop, explain your needs, see if they’re willing to work on it, and so forth. Divorce is a last resort. But that’s essentially saying the disability had no bearing on the case, which is basically not the hypothetical. > > I am coming at this assuming that the disability is causing her to seek divorce. Otherwise, it’s a silly question. The quadriplegia would be extraneous information, like his hair color. I don’t think that’s interesting to talk about. Actually, the way the OP is worded, you can read a lot into it. If she wants to travel the world, and cannot now, the most obvious reason would be because she can’t leave her husband by himself. She might feel obligated to tend to him instead of enjoying time for herself, or his medical needs might preclude her absence, but another reason would be that he forbids it. “You need to take care of me; you can’t be gallivanting around the world having adventures.” If that’s the case, his quadriplegia is the root cause of his emotional neediness or abuse, and so is highly relevant and would be a significant impediment to his ability to “work on it.” You yourself agree that Erica needs to “explain her needs.” That implies that Erica might have needs that Geoff is no longer capable of meeting, because of health or depression or medical issues or personality or whatever other factors are in play. At what point and to what level does Erica need to subsume her needs to her wedding vows? That’s the question Erica must answer, and who can answer for her? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/89 "2014-12-30T18:44:16Z")
> [@bup](#): > > I don’t think I could remain friends. When you marry somebody, it’s what you’re signing on for. That’s part of the deal - you know you don’t know what the future holds, but you’re making a commitment to stay with the person until death. > > I get that having a disabled spouse sucks, and I can empathize. Do you have a problem with all divorce? Because if you don’t have a problem with divorce in general, but do if one party becomes disabled, does it end up with essentially the idea that the disabled person is supposed to get a pity marriage? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/90 "2014-12-30T18:51:07Z")
> [@bup](#): > > But you’re pretty sure it was about Cindy’s disfigurement? Not his being a captive in a small cell in Vietnam for six years? Not growing apart? Not him having a midlife crisis and banging PYTs? 11 years after her car accident, 7 years after he got home from Vietnam, he sued for divorce. I just can’t conclude it was her physical disability that led to it. Carol. Cindy is the new, rich and pretty wife. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/91 "2014-12-30T18:58:01Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > She won’t be seeking spousal support… Note that if the husband with the disability were not independently wealthy, presumably he might be entitled to support from her. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/92 "2014-12-30T19:04:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Note that if the husband with the disability were not independently wealthy, presumably he might be entitled to support from her. If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a wagon. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/93 "2014-12-30T19:19:40Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Do you have a problem with all divorce? Because if you don’t have a problem with divorce in general, but do if one party becomes disabled, does it end up with essentially the idea that the disabled person is supposed to get a pity marriage? No, I don’t have a problem with all divorce. I probably am more anti-divorce than the average person, but I’m not against all divorce. But leaving somebody who has changed in a way they can’t control is qualitatively different than both spouses agreeing to end the marriage. And it’s different from leaving somebody who is abusive, or unfaithful. Unilateral abandonment is pretty much the polar opposite of what marriage vows promise. And I would shake my head in disbelief at anyone who would agree to be Erica’s second spouse. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/94 "2014-12-30T19:23:23Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I was born with a monogamous orientation, not everyone is. My husband is the same. Even as a kid I wanted to find someone to be monogamous and committed with - while little girls dreamed of their wedding day, I envisioned us taking care of each other when we were old. I will always be a romantic at heart but there has always been a pragmatism to this romance. When my husband and I sit down with excel spreadsheets to plan our future, financial or otherwise, I think, this is exactly what I always wanted out of a marriage. I married a practical, analytical, responsible person for a reason. I married a person who is kind to everyone. I married a person who is sensible enough to know when an argument is worth having. I married a person secure enough in his own values not to find his character threatened when times get hard. Even with all the shit slung at us lately, there’s still a quiet part of my soul whispering: _this is what you wanted._ No, of course I didn’t want our unborn baby to die, but we both knew when we married that we were signing up for a lifetime of joy and sorrow. This is the great test. To meet adversity and rise above it and be stronger for it in the end. That’s what I was talking about in my wedding vows (he was, perhaps smarter - his only promise in his wedding vows was to make fun of me for the rest of my life, which he now claims is ‘‘in the contract.’’ Sigh.) > > Because the reality of life is that you are going to experience adversity whether you’re married or single. Doesn’t matter whether you get married or not - you will experience grief and despair, and pain and sickness, guaranteed. If you can keep your shit together and face the adversity as a team, it’s WAY better than dealing with life alone. That is the value of lifetime commitment to me. Knowing someone has your back, always. The unique experience of sharing life with another person is worth the risk of it all failing spectacularly. > > I mean I could tell you, **AnaMen** , about the value of lifetime commitment until I’m blue in the face, it doesn’t really matter what I think. In the end it matters what you think. I would be rather presumptuous of me to try to impose my marital value system on another person. It’s not up to me to decide what marriage means for other people, in any given moment. And I would extend that same rule to the hypothetical. But it isn’t as if the only two choices are to be married and half of a team or to be alone. Marriage makes it difficult and expensive to break up the team when either party wants it to dissolve. I don’t want to be on a team with anyone who doesn’t want to be on it and stays because of bureaucratic hassle, money, social standing, etc. The “lifetime commitment” could only come into play if someone wants to break it, like any contract. If you and your spouse are happy with your arrangement and remain so forever, that’s wonderful and I’m happy for you. I’ve seen too much unexpected awful behavior from people to ever think it would make sense for me, but I wouldn’t assume the same for others. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/95 "2014-12-30T19:52:38Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Divorce is not _categorically_ a moral failing; it does not follow that no choice to divorce ever has a moral component. > > Do you agree with **AnaMen** , then? > > Of course, this (logically) requires that you be “fully supportive” of any of your friends’ spouses leaving your friends, for any reason. Or your spouse leaving you. Unless your ‘moral’ standards operate selectively according to who you like. > > No choice to divorce, for any reason, _ever_ reflects on the moral character of them that so choose? Really? Well, what do you mean by “fully supportive”? I might dislike it for various rational or irrational reasons, but I guess I don’t feel, as someone not experiencing the experiences of the person making that choice, that I have _any real idea_ what is driving a decision to divorce (in all but the most extreme and explicit scenarios). It seems pretty presumptuous for me to pass judgment on a person’s reasons for divorce; I find it pretty difficult to imagine any scenario in which a person ought to stay in a relationship with another person if he/she doesn’t want to, regardless of a decision made sometime in the past. (I’m all about marriage . . . and if I get married I fully expect that I’ll work 100% to stick with the person I’ve chosen (and who has chosen me) through hardship and change. But, I am very uninterested in uttering the words “till death do us part,” nor do I want to hear them from somebody. Sometimes there are specific promises that we just can’t guarantee, and so those words become meaningless.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/96 "2014-12-30T19:54:06Z")
I have been in this position, sort of. In that case the genders were reversed - the husband left his wife because, or at least after, she became paraplegic or nearly so (multiple sclerosis). I am still friends with him (not her, because she died some years back). It’s not my place to judge. It was also not necessarily all his fault. Some people become difficult to live with after becoming disabled. I saw a little of that from the outside. The SOs of disabled people are not necessarily saints, and neither are disabled people. [QUOTE=Velocity] Not to make this about gender, but I suspect there would be a much more negative reaction if a man divorced a crippled wife because of her being crippled. [/QUOTE] I have no idea how I would have reacted if the genders were reversed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/97 "2014-12-30T20:15:05Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > If my grandmother had wheels, she’d be a wagon. Then she’d be your grandwagon. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/98 "2014-12-30T21:08:06Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > If either party is unhappy with the arrangement, then I think they are bad reasons. Well, yeah, being uphappy is one of the base reasons for divorce. I think there are a sizable number of people unhappy with a particular situation or detail who are nonetheless happy with their on going relationship. Of course, if we’d all assume a lot less about other people we all might be happier as well. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/99 "2014-12-30T21:51:22Z")
> [@Waymore](#): > > I couldn’t remain friends with Erica. Abandoning somebody you’re committed to for better or worse while that person is at the absolute lowest point of their life displays a self absorption I can’t respect. Seeing (and thus treating) your spouse and marriage as an albatross around your neck, breeding nothing but resentment is, IMO, a much graver life mistake for both partners. These types of situations arise _all of the time_ IRL and the reactions from people on the outside who just see an able-bodied partner leaving a recently disabled one are usually fairly uniform. They condemn the leaving spouse as a horribly shallow, selfish person who callously is leaving their partner at life’s lowest moment. But severe spinal cord injury changes _ **everything** _. It changes things even in ways one would never expect or could ever prepare for. Life radically, traumatically changes in the blink of an eye. For both injured spouse and caring spouse, the injury itself is a devastating tragedy with myriad physical and psychological impacts. However, there is one crucial difference between the injured spouse and the caring spouse after a spinal cord injury (in theory, at least). One of these people can get up and leave this terrible nightmare. Now, knowing, at least a bit, of what such a life entails, I would NEVER judge a person who fled the horrors of a severe spinal cord injury. I think everyone deserves at least a chance at real happiness. ---
**Author:** ![Lacunae\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lacunae\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lacunae_Matata)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480/100 "2014-12-30T21:58:28Z")
The scenario hits too close to home for me to be very objective about hypothetical Erica. When my husband and I married five years ago, we were both relatively healthy. We had two children together, and shared a commitment to one another and to our family. Two years ago, he was seriously injured in a car wreck, and it remains to be seen whether he is permanently disabled, but it’s now been two years of caretaking, parenting without a heap of help (as much as he’s able, but he has limitations,) and so forth. We can’t get out much, due to financial difficulties and physical ones. But I married him because I can’t imagine my life without him. A whole notebook full of injuries doesn’t change the person he is. I would probably distance myself from someone who apparently married someone based on who he was at 30, without considering that he will change physically and intellectually, just as she will. Barring some sort of abuse (not “allowing” her to travel without him, expecting her to be a full-time nurse when there are other good options, that sort of thing,) I’d find Erica’s decision to be very self-centered, possibly cruel. But like I said, I can’t be very objective right now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-remain-friends-with-a-person-who-left-their-spouse-because-the-spouse-had-been-crippled/708480.md?page=6)