Could YOU survive a national or g;obal catastrophe?

In My Humble Opinion
21

[QUOTE=iamthewalrus(:3=]
I don’t think this would work. If there was a disaster large enough to seriously disrupt the power and transportation networks so that having enough food became a serious problem, there would be very few places remote enough to escape the surge of hungry humanity. If you can walk there from a major population center, so can millions of other people. If the disruption lasted longer than a few days, the chance of surviving, starting from a city, would be very slim indeed. Maybe if you were already out in the woods when it happened.

Personally, I think I’d be toast, unless I got to an unguarded gun shop quickly.
[/QUOTE]

I dunno-- I think most people would be inclined to stay put. They wouldn’t want to abandon their property (not fully realizing how worthless it really is), and they’d want to stay near friends and loved ones (or in a location where their friends/family would know to look for them if they’ve been seperated.) They’d want to be where they can loot grocery stores, not out in the woods where they have no clue how to find food and have no shelter.

Even if people did start wandering out into the wilderness, hunting isn’t as easy as it sounds. Most people, especially if they’re not familiar with guns, couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn, let alone a moving target. (Unlikely they’d know to be stealthy, either, or know enough to check the wind patterns.) Yeah, they might be able to hack off a chunk of meat, but most people don’t know how to properly dress game. Even cooking over an open fire might be beyond many.

I predict that even if the initial apocalypse didn’t kill off a significant portion of people, they’d be dying like flies within six months. Frankly, most people are too stupid to make it during a survival-of-the-fittest situation. There’d be huge numbers of deaths from people fighting over the remaining resources, people who poisoned themselves not knowing how to cook or store foods properly*, people who tried to start generators or tap into gas lines without knowing what they were doing and suicide.

The way I see it is that you’ve got about a couple of weeks before things start getting really bad-- the supply of food in grocery stores and in people’s homes would probably last that long, as would the supply of liquor and drugs. After they run out, folks are going to start getting desperate and that’s when all hell would break loose.

  • In the past, people had a bit more of an immunity to food-bourne illness due to being exposed to unsanitary conditions their whole lives.
22

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
Not me, not for long. I’m a dazzling urbanite and require the mechanics of civilization to live.

I am also somewhat cynical about the ability of groups of humans to work together and avoid murdering each other, without the influence of civilization to hold them back. **Silenus ** and **Cluricaun ** are good examples of what I mean.

So let me get this clear, guys (and why am I so sure that you’re both male?) - if I have an extra couple of water containers, and you’re running out, you would consider murdering me to get my water?

That’s the world I don’t want to live in, thank you very much.

Roddy
[/QUOTE]

Well, certainly not as a first resort. I’d far rather barter or trade something else for what I need, or scavenge what I lack from others who didn’t make it. I’m not some bloodthirsty monster looking for a reason, any reason, to start the wholesale slaughter of those around me. Although I won’t speak for Silenus, I do tend to find myself in agreement with him on the boards and would imagine him to feel much the same.

I won’t be deprived of life or sustanance by someone who’s looking to do me or my loved ones harm. If I was to be out gathering food or water and was set upon by a group, then I’ll defend myself. If, to get right down to it, you wonder if I would resort to strong arm tactics in the face of the loss of my own life, then yes, I would.

23

Ditto. Well-said.

24

[QUOTE=Lissa]

Even if people did start wandering out into the wilderness, hunting isn’t as easy as it sounds.
[/QUOTE]

I think people would go looking for others to beg, borrow or steal from.

25

[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
I think people would go looking for others to beg, borrow or steal from.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but their range might not be very large. If they’re hungry and cold, they won’t have the strength to go tramping through the woods for miles on the off chance they’ll find someone more fortunate than they. They’d have to know you were out there and know that you have food to make it worthwhile. (Never a good thing to advertise.)

Most people today aren’t long-hikers. (I know some people who think more than a few blocks is an unreasonable distance to travel on foot.) Our instinct is to sit still and wait to be rescued. There’d be some who would try it, but I think most people wouldn’t stray very far from home.

26

[QUOTE=Lissa]
Even if people did start wandering out into the wilderness, hunting isn’t as easy as it sounds. Most people, especially if they’re not familiar with guns, couldn’t hit the broad side of a barn, let alone a moving target. (Unlikely they’d know to be stealthy, either, or know enough to check the wind patterns.) Yeah, they might be able to hack off a chunk of meat, but most people don’t know how to properly dress game. Even cooking over an open fire might be beyond many.
[/QUOTE]

Normally, where you are allowed to hunt is very restricted. So in those areas, during hunting season, there are a lot of hunters and therefore fewer deer, so it’s harder to bad a kill. However, in areas where hunting is not allowed, like in many places around where I live (suburban backyards, roadsides, median strips, wooded patches near office buildings, everywhere), deer are very abundant, and not that scared of people. So it would be pretty easy to pick them off with a bow and arrow.

Also, one could school themselves in gathering techniques. For example, acorns are perfectly edible (but bitter). Berries and other vegetation can be gathered and eaten (think wild rasperries, mushrooms). You could also theoretically hunt for bird eggs, turtles, snakes, etc. These things are abundant in the woods I am used to in my neck of the woods (VA, MD, WV, PA).

Also, there is a plethora of Canada geese in the suburban areas where I live. Those would be easy as pie to get. You could also get ducks and other waterfowl that frequent suburban lakes, ponds and streams. These same bodies of water usually have plenty of fish in them. And like I said before, there are plenty of rabbits, squirrels, raccoons and possums that could be trapped.

Yes you would have to have knowledge of hunting and preparing meat, but it’s not rocket science.

27

If that happens, feel free to take anything I have. I have no interest in living in a post-apocalypse world. I’ll just off myself.

28

Dibs on his stuff!!

29

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
(many snips) If, to get right down to it, you wonder if I would resort to strong arm tactics in the face of the loss of my own life, then yes, I would.
[/QUOTE]
So to you human rights are just a convenient fiction adopted to allow people to live together in a “pretend” civilized world? Do you have any values at all, aside from the lives of yourself and your family?

I guess I should start compiling a list of vulnerable neighbors who might have stuff I need in the event of a disaster. The elderly gent next door seems pretty defenseless. I wonder how hungry or thirsty I have to get before this starts looking like a good prospect.

I’m not a pacifist, and if I had the means would attempt to defend myself, but am I the only one who finds the attitude expressed above enormously discouraging, especially on this board?

Roddy

30

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
So to you human rights are just a convenient fiction adopted to allow people to live together in a “pretend” civilized world?
[/QUOTE]

I’m don’t personally believe that human rights in this context are as inherent as they seem to be to you. I’m definately not a follower of Kantian moral theory, but getting into something like that, well that’s a whole new thread. Feel free to open one if you’d like and I’ll be happy to participate.

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
Do you have any values at all, aside from the lives of yourself and your family?
[/QUOTE]

Certainly, but not too many higher that those two. If you lose those then what do you have left to worry about?

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
I guess I should start compiling a list of vulnerable neighbors who might have stuff I need in the event of a disaster. The elderly gent next door seems pretty defenseless. I wonder how hungry or thirsty I have to get before this starts looking like a good prospect.
[/QUOTE]

In they type of disasters I and others have envisioned in order to respond to this thread there’s a pretty good chance that that elderly gent wouldn’t make it on his own anyway. If he was to succumb to whatever is causing this scenario are you telling me that you wouldn’t kick his door down to get at any food, water, or medicine that he might have had and is not going to be using any time soon?

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
I’m not a pacifist, and if I had the means would attempt to defend myself, but am I the only one who finds the attitude expressed above enormously discouraging, especially on this board?
[/QUOTE]

No snark intended, but I’m not really sure what you mean by that other than to say you find my point of view ignorant, but if you were to ask around in a poll type question I think you might find I’m not alone. Life, just like the SDMB isn’t all kitten threads.

31

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
Life, just like the SDMB isn’t all kitten threads.
[/QUOTE]

Kitten with guns.

We exist to serve. :smiley:

32

[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca]
Yes you would have to have knowledge of hunting and preparing meat, but it’s not rocket science.
[/QUOTE]

Rocket science, no but it’s a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface.

Let’s look at Bob Smith. The apocalypse caught poor Bob by surprise and now his kids are hungry. Bob gets an idea: he’ll go hunt for some food!

But Bob doesn’t even own a gun. So, first things first: He goes down to his local (miraculously unraided) sporting goods store and looks at the selection. What kind should he buy? He never watched hunting shows. Shotgun or rifle? Once he’s made a choice, what sort of ammo does he put in it? He’s leery because he’s heard vague urban legends of guns blowing up because of improper ammo. The tag on the gun is merely the store tag, and doesn’t have that kind of information on it (or he can’t decipher it.) So let’s say he chooses one and manages to get the right cartridges.

He walks out into the woods, looks around, and doesn’t see any deer. He proceeds to wander around for hours, stomping around like an ignorant city-slicker, unaware that every deer for five miles knows he’s out there. After thinking about it for a bit, he realizes he should sit on a log and wait. Now, let’s say a deer happens to wander by, and that Bob remembers to click the safety off and that he actually aims a kill shot on the very first try.

Now, lying before him is a dead deer that weighs about as much as he does. He can try to drag it back, but amazingly, he thought to bring a sharp knife and some bags in which to transport the meat. He hacks off a few haunches and heads home.

When he arrives, his wife reminds him that the stove doesn’t work. (No power.) Bob’s house doesn’t have a fireplace. He decides he’ll light a fire out back, but there’s no fire wood. He and the kids spend hours gathering branches from the conveniently located park next door. (Bob decides he needs to cut down a tree next week for firewood, leading to all sorts of adventures with a chainsaw. Stay Tuned!)

They finally get a fire going, a process which required copious amounts of lighter fluid (which he luckily had on hand) since he’d never started a fire before and didn’t know about using tiny slivers of wood, then working your way up to the big stuff. He and his wife take turns standing by the fire holding the haunch out over it on a stick. (Having never seen a tripod cooking aparatus.)

Now, lets assume that they got it cooked over the fire and didn’t drop it or otherwise ruin the meat. The family has a great meal. Bob goes back out to get some more of the deer tomorrow, but the carcass has been taken by wolves or feral dogs. His only option is to trounce through the woods again. (If he ever does drag back a deer, it will spoil because he has no idea how to preserve it and the meat will get tainted from punctured organs.)

Bob doesn’t know that some of the plants he’s stomping underfoot are edible. He recognizes morel mushrooms, possibly, and raspberries, but most people have no idea that acorns and cattails are edible. Even if they did know, they’d probably have no clue how to prepare it. (Who has a mortar and pestle anymore, anyway?)

Nor does he realize that creatures like opposums and groundhogs are edible (and often easier to hunt than deer.) Hopefully, if he realizes it, he’ll use a smaller ammo. But Bob will be competing with feral dogs and cats for these small creatures. And it’s possible that some of those dog packs might get desperate enough to try hunting* him* while he’s out there.

Bob and his family are likely fucked. They may have had a little garden out back, but they don’t know anything about wide-scale farming. They won’t realize how much wood they’ll need to survive winter, so in some climates, they could actually freeze to death in their own homes.

Let’s assume these are smart folks who decide to find a book that’ll teach them what they need to know. Further assuming that the library is still standing and unlooted (books make pretty good makeshift firewood, or so Hollywood says) and they find what they’re looking for without assistance (which any librarian will tell you is an epic struggle these days for many people), it will take them a while to acquire these skills and the supplies they’ll need. They’ll also likely fail a few times, and if they don’t have backup supplies, it could be tragic.

We’re really far removed from “living off the land” these days. Hell, I’ve talked to some people who had no idea that french fries were made from potatoes and adults who didn’t know how to cook more than warming up what came out of a can.

33

[QUOTE=silenus]
Kitten with guns.

We exist to serve. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

Damn it man. Only you could just whip that up that fast. :stuck_out_tongue:

That kitten is totally ready for the apocolypse.

34

Do you think extremely wealthy people like the Bill Gates or even celebs would have a better chance of survival?

35

[QUOTE=Caridwen]
Do you think extremely wealthy people like the Bill Gates or even celebs would have a better chance of survival?
[/QUOTE]

I’m having a mental picture of Ashley Simpson fighting off a pack of hungry dogs to get at a box of Ho-Hos in some looted store in Beverly Hills.

It hurts to smile that big.

36

[QUOTE=Lissa]
Let’s look at Bob Smith. The apocalypse caught poor Bob by surprise and now his kids are hungry. Bob gets an idea: he’ll go hunt for some food!
[/QUOTE]

Woah, Bob is an idiot. But then again only the strong and smart will survive the apocalypse…

A lot about hunting, gathering and trapping is common sense though. I’m a suburban girl, but I know plenty about the aforementioned subjects that I think I could survive.

37

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]
(snips)In they type of disasters I and others have envisioned in order to respond to this thread there’s a pretty good chance that that elderly gent wouldn’t make it on his own anyway. If he was to succumb to whatever is causing this scenario are you telling me that you wouldn’t kick his door down to get at any food, water, or medicine that he might have had and is not going to be using any time soon?
[/QUOTE]
Let’s be clear about this. I understood you to say that you would be willing to commit murder in order to steal supplies to keep yourself and your family alive. Is that what you said or not? That’s quite different from stealing supplies from someone who is already dead.

[QUOTE=Cluricaun]

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
Do you have any values at all, other than the lives of yourself and your family?
[/QUOTE]
Certainly, but not too many higher that those two. If you lose those then what do you have left to worry about?
[/QUOTE]
I am curious, “not too many higher than those two” - what might those few be, I wonder? I really am interested to know, if it’s not too personal.

But you are right about one thing, I am straying far afield from the OP. I’ll go back and say again that I doubt I would survive long in a real catastrophe, and maybe that’s just as well. I don’t see the point of losing my humanity to save my life.

Roddy

38

[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory]
“That wasn’t any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.” - Larry Underwood, The Stand
[/QUOTE]

Or, any number of residents of New Orleans after the levees broke.

Right now, I’d be pretty much schmoed. I’ve got some food in the house, not enough to last more than a couple of days, though, and maybe enough water to last me about two days, if I give up bathing. There’s rabbits around here, so I could survive, if I managed to catch them without having any firearms (or even bow and arrow). No fireplace, but I’ve got enough crap laying around here that I could cobble one together which would work well enough that I didn’t have to worry about the place burning down or getting poisoned. Not much wood in the area (and I’ve only got a small hatchet), but between my furniture, books, and the back deck, I’ve got enough combustables to last me through the mild and short winter’s here. With time and luck, I could make it, but I’m willing to bet that the odds wouldn’t be in my favor.

Of course, if I can train my cats to do this, then I’ll be fine. :smiley:

39

[QUOTE=Lissa]
(Who has a mortar and pestle anymore, anyway?)
[/QUOTE]

I own two. :smiley:

I think I’d have a better than average chance of survival, but no matter how skilled/prepared you are, in that sort of catastrophe chance plays a significant role.

I do know that I’ve got options to avoid the traffic jams that other folks don’t. I know how to fly and I know how to ride a horse. Better yet, I have some idea of how to take care of a horse and keep it healthy.

40

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
Let’s be clear about this. I understood you to say that you would be willing to commit murder in order to steal supplies to keep yourself and your family alive. Is that what you said or not? That’s quite different from stealing supplies from someone who is already dead.
[/QUOTE]

I said that I would rather scavenge than kill, but I’m not running away from it. I did say I would kill for my family and I and I meant it.

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
I am curious, “not too many higher than those two” - what might those few be, I wonder? I really am interested to know, if it’s not too personal.
[/QUOTE]

No, not at all. The truth is that I don’t value anything above my life and the lives of my loved ones. I do put a high value on love, honor, respect, loyalty, and honesty, but those don’t mean anything to me if I’m lying dead on the floor, and those all go right out the window when we’re talking about proctecting my family.

[QUOTE=Roderick Femm]
But you are right about one thing, I am straying far afield from the OP. I’ll go back and say again that I doubt I would survive long in a real catastrophe, and maybe that’s just as well. I don’t see the point of losing my humanity to save my life.
[/QUOTE]

I suppose we should just agree to disagree. I don’t see the point in losing my life to save my humanity.