# Could You Survive "Keelhauling"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 5, 2008, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209 "2008-03-05T17:52:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/21 "2008-03-06T05:50:30Z")
The OED gives the exact definition, which may help. One of the cites also shows that it was sometimes done more than once in succession. > [@](#): > > To haul (a person) under the keel of a ship, either by lowering him on one side and hauling him across to the other side, or, in the case of smaller vessels, lowering him at the bows and drawing him along under the keel to the stern. > > 1666 Lond. Gaz. No. 112/3 He..caused Blake to be loaded with Chains..and..ordered him to be three times Keel-haled (as they [the Dutch] call it). ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/22 "2008-03-06T05:55:56Z")
Remember, though - the question here isn’t whether the punishment _could_ be fatal. I doubt anyone is arguing that. Simply that it’s wasn’t always automatically fatal, and listing some of the reasons for which that might be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/23 "2008-03-06T06:19:45Z")
My CO threatened to keel-haul several of us shortly after we left port on my first cruise. Not a pretty prospect, even on a [relatively] dinky [DDH](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMCS_Annapolis_%28DDH_265%29): a beam of 42’, and a draught of 24’. I dimly recall from an early class that there were a variety of gruesome Royal Naval punishments, but that keel-hauling was deemed relatively minor in comparison to most of them. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/24 "2008-03-06T09:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=mbh] If the Captain wanted you dead, you would be “hung from the yardarm”. A sailing ship’s rigging made quite an effective gallows. [/QUOTE] “Hanging from the yardarm” is a literary convention, and probably happened rarely in actual practice owing to the significant hazard of having an object the mass of an adult male swinging about. The only way it would be feasible would be to tie down the legs while hanging (as done when moving topsails or mainstails up the mast) so as to prevent the body from flinging about, which will occur even in light seas. I suspect that most deaths in naval service due to punishment occured due to blood loss and shock from flogging or dehydration from water deprivation. What hangings occured were typically done at anchor or on land. Even C.S. Forester tends to avoid this cliche in the _Hornblower_ stories, indicating (correctly) than hanging is reserved only for the most extreme offenses and only after deliberation (although other forms of excessive corporal punishment are common). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/25 "2008-03-06T09:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Valgard] Imagine a long rope with the victim tied at the midpoint. Two groups of sailors hold each end of the rope while standing at the sides of the boat, towards the front. Victim jumps (or is pushed) off the bow and the two sets of sailors begin to walk astern. Victim is thus dragged along the bottom of the boat, being hauled under the keel from stern to bow. [/QUOTE] That would be almost impossible to do - there’s equipment and rigging attached to the gunwale at various points along its length - you can’t just trot down the full length of the boat holding a rope attached to something that is overboard - it would always get hung up on something. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/26 "2008-03-06T09:25:51Z")
[QUOTE=Civil Guy] As you’re going down, seems to me that your bouyancy and the direction of the hauling line are definitely keeping you against the boat bottom. Argh. And what I can’t quite get my head around is deciding how much fun it must be to get pulled across the keelboard. [/QUOTE] I can’t remember where I heard it (may have been from a tour guide at HMS Victory - and we know tour guides are always right on the facts, don’t we?) - but someone told me that adding chains to the victim when keel-hauling was an act of _mercy_, because it would result in him sinking and passing under the keel more easily. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/27 "2008-03-06T10:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] I can’t remember where I heard it (may have been from a tour guide at HMS Victory - and we know tour guides are always right on the facts, don’t we?) - but someone told me that adding chains to the victim when keel-hauling was an act of _mercy_ [/QUOTE] I thought, for some reason, that they just dumped these huge chains ontop of the poor sod afterwards, when he was on deck. “Arrrr, matey, try and get up from under these!” :o ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/28 "2008-03-06T10:50:19Z")
While we’re on the subject, how common was making someone walk the plank? Wouldn’t it be easier to grab the miscreant and throw him overboard where there’s nothing for him to grab on the way down? And how would such an unlucky sod die: In shock from broken bones and internal hemorrhaging, by drowning, or from dehydration? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/29 "2008-03-06T11:10:14Z")
According to Cecil in [this](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/071012.html) article, not common at all: > [@](#): > > Walking the plank. Unmentioned in historical accounts of the golden age; tossing someone over the side was quicker. In one instance from 1829 the perps apparently had some extra time and/or panache, and men were indeed tied, blindfolded, weighted with shot, and made to walk. This can’t have been a total anomaly (ancient pirates may occasionally have used a ladder in some planklike fashion) but it wasn’t common. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/30 "2008-03-06T11:13:59Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] “Hanging from the yardarm” is a literary convention, and probably happened rarely in actual practice owing to the significant hazard of having an object the mass of an adult male swinging about. The only way it would be feasible would be to tie down the legs while hanging (as done when moving topsails or mainstails up the mast) so as to prevent the body from flinging about, which will occur even in light seas. I suspect that most deaths in naval service due to punishment occured due to blood loss and shock from flogging or dehydration from water deprivation. What hangings occured were typically done at anchor or on land. Even C.S. Forester tends to avoid this cliche in the _Hornblower_ stories, indicating (correctly) than hanging is reserved only for the most extreme offenses and only after deliberation (although other forms of excessive corporal punishment are common). Stranger [/QUOTE] I’m afraid that I can’t leave this statement alone, **Stranger**. I know you’ve said that in reality “hanging from the yardarms” was probably a rare event, and I agree with that, but the tone of the rest of your answer leaves the impression that you also are throwing out a sea anchor just to cover your butt, and that you can’t recall any incidents of it actually happening. If that’s the case I’d like to offer up the [_Somers_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Somers_%281842%29#The_.22Somers_Affair.22) [Affair](http://law.jrank.org/pages/2483/Mackenzie-Court-Martial-1843.html), where a USN captain hanged three men at sea, for their part in a planned mutiny. It’s not a minor incident, either - the event was one of the major pressures that lead to the formation of the US Naval Academy. None of the accounts I can find quickly online use the actually expression “hanging from the yardarms,” except as a caption to a drawing, so I won’t swear that the men hanged aboard the Somers were hanged from the yardarm - however, I find it hard to imagine a more likely place to hang the three mutineers. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/31 "2008-03-06T12:38:03Z")
**Stranger** said: > [@](#): > > Even C.S. Forester tends to avoid this cliche in the Hornblower stories, indicating (correctly) than hanging is reserved only for the most extreme offenses and only after deliberation (although other forms of excessive corporal punishment are common). This gives the impression that there’s no hanging in the Hornblower books, which isn’t really true. In **Hornblower and the Atropos** , Hornblower tells the French prize crew that he’s going to hang one of them from the yardarm, and actually gets the machinery in motion. It’s all a ruse, of course, and Hornblower has no intention of actually doing it, but neither the French nor, in fact, Hornblower’s own crew knows that, yet nobody acts as if this is something grotesque and unusual – their objection is that Hornblower is acting precipitously and on his own as judge, jury, and executioner, not that the action of hanging on board a ship is unusual.. I also got the impression that Barry McCool was hanged on Board after his trial, in the short story “Hornblower’s Temptation”, in the collection **Hornblower During the Crisis**. I note that in both cases the ships are still and at anchjor, not underway. Under those circumstances, I can’t see **Stranger** ’s objections about the body getting in the way coming into play. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/32 "2008-03-06T12:46:07Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] I thought, for some reason, that they just dumped these huge chains ontop of the poor sod afterwards, when he was on deck. “Arrrr, matey, try and get up from under these!” :o [/QUOTE] …and when or if you do, it’s your turn in the barrel…Arrrrr ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/33 "2008-03-06T13:00:11Z")
I can’t say how common “hanging from the yardarm” was but it definitely happened. [Richard Parker](http://www.napoleonguide.com/richard-parker.htm) - one of the leaders of the RN Nore mutiny of 1797 - was hanged in this way: > [@](#): > > Quote: > The hood was pulled down and before he dropped his white cloth Parker jumped off the platform towards the sea. The rope was still to be untied for the hauling gang and so when it reached its limit it jagged taut and broke the prisoner’s neck. > > A signal gun sounded and the shocked hauling gang belatedly raised the body to the yardarm. After an hour it was brought down and quickly buried near Sheerness fort. **Stranger** refers to the problem of the body swinging around amongst the rigging but this hanging, and I guess any others ordered by a Courts-Martial, would take place while the ship was anchored in port. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/34 "2008-03-06T13:58:52Z")
[QUOTE=Stranger On A Train] What hangings occured were typically done at anchor [/QUOTE] So, to summarise, there is broad agreement with Stranger’s proposal that if you’re going to hang someone aboard a ship it’s most likely to get done while the ship is at anchor? Most likely in a fleet anchorage where there were enough other captains about to form a court-martial? [QUOTE=mangetout] That would be almost impossible to do - there’s equipment and rigging attached to the gunwale at various points along its length - you can’t just trot down the full length of the boat holding a rope attached to something that is overboard - it would always get hung up on something. [/QUOTE] My understanding (admittedly from reading historical fiction) was that any seaman worthy of the name would have been able to work their way along the side of the ship, stepping outboard of the chainplates or shrouds or whatever they are called when necessary. Not the kind of thing to attempt in bad weather or while trying anything too complex, but holding a rope it shouldn’t be too hard. Particularly if there was some prep time to rig a handrope to hold on to for the tricky bit. Compared with the challenge of trying to work sails up a mast in bad weather, it would probably be fairly trivial. Whether it was feasible doesn’t have much bearing on whether it actually ever happened - the vast majority of references to the term keelhauling certainly indicate it was done side-to-side. Frustratingly [this google link](http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blackwell-synergy.com%2Fdoi%2Fabs%2F10.1111%2Fj.1467-9922.2006.00383.x&ei=RPfPR8eDKaOwwQHa7smXAw&usg=AFQjCNHNkrjnk8KGnMvjjlb4vYHKSLvmpg&sig2=2RxmBpEEsfxzPMI_QWp1dQ) to a Blackwell Publication does not complete, although it does come up with the summary text: > [@](#): > > Keelhauling along the length of the hull was generally a death sentence because it could take as long as 3 min, and perhaps longer, to walk the ropes all… so if someone has access to this publication they might be able to dig out a bit more detail. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/35 "2008-03-06T14:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] I’m not familiar with that one. [/QUOTE] Probably just me, then. It shows a pirate school, and one of the gags is a sentence diagrammed on the chalkboard: “I will keel-haul him.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/36 "2008-03-06T17:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] This gives the impression that there’s no hanging in the Hornblower books, which isn’t really true. In **Hornblower and the Atropos** , Hornblower tells the French prize crew that he’s going to hang one of them from the yardarm, and actually gets the machinery in motion. It’s all a ruse, of course, and Hornblower has no intention of actually doing it, but neither the French nor, in fact, Hornblower’s own crew knows that, yet nobody acts as if this is something grotesque and unusual – their objection is that Hornblower is acting precipitously and on his own as judge, jury, and executioner, not that the action of hanging on board a ship is unusual.. I also got the impression that Barry McCool was hanged on Board after his trial, in the short story “Hornblower’s Temptation”, in the collection **Hornblower During the Crisis**. [/QUOTE] Both are true, but again, they’re presented as the exception, not the general rule. For captured prisoners, crew were generally pressed into service and officers treated as prisoners of war; pirates and privateers were most likely shot, tossed overboard shackled to a cannon ball, or otherwise dispensed with in convenient fashion. Hanging–portrayed in some fiction as a common and favorite punishment meted out by sadistic skippers–was a fairly rare event (unlike floggings, dragging, starvation and dehydration, masting, et cetera) for the purposes of internal discipline and was unlikely to occur at seas, owing again to the difficulty of performing the mechanics of the job without fouling rigging or interfering with the operation of a ship making weigh. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/37 "2008-03-06T23:03:49Z")
[QUOTE=slaphead] Compared with the challenge of trying to work sails up a mast in bad weather, it would probably be fairly trivial. [/QUOTE] Totally trivial. I’ve done harder things at sea on smaller vessels in bad weather, and I’m no saltie. You just walk along the deck passing the end around stays and whatnot. No problem. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2008, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/38 "2008-03-06T23:12:58Z")
Hey **Scylla** are you around? We’ve got something else for you to try… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/39 "2008-03-07T00:01:57Z")
Actually it wouldn’t be a bad one for Mythbusters. You could see how it works while still doing it quite safely: you just do it with breathing gear on, but don’t use it unless you have to. Plus just _hold on to_ a loop in the rope rather than be tied to it, so you can let go any time. Plus do it on a ship without barnacles (and/or while wearing a protective suit) so that the laceration aspect isn’t a problem. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209/40 "2008-03-07T00:14:56Z")
You should go on their web site and suggest it. I tried to suggest the Tom Cruise motor cycle leap in MI one and never heard back from them. -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-survive-keelhauling/440209.md?page=3)