# Could you train an ape or monkey to use firearms? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948 "2009-02-01T02:39:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/1 "2009-02-01T02:39:55Z")
Saw some [Formosan Rock Monkeys](http://www.taiwan.com.au/Envtra/Protection/Ethic/01.html) yesterday: dexterious little buggers. Which naturally got me thinking: could you train one to use a gun reliably? What about a chimpanzee or other ape? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/2 "2009-02-01T02:43:44Z")
To _fire_ it reliably? Probably. But I sure wouldn’t trust it to handle it unsupervised nor use good judgment on when and at what to fire it. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/3 "2009-02-01T02:59:46Z")
It would only be sporting to teach them how to reload as well. ---
**Author:** ![Waffle\_Decider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/77aa72/32.png) [@Waffle\_Decider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waffle_Decider)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/4 "2009-02-01T03:02:28Z")
The recoil could be a problem for the little guys. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/5 "2009-02-01T04:52:41Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/mmtX6Tj74oU/hqdefault.jpg "Eddie Izzard Monkey with gun") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/6 "2009-02-01T05:00:58Z")
The results would be disastrous. But yes, it can and has been done. Humans are apes. [Ape - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape) Millions of gun trained apes, and not gun trained apes, have killed people and animals with guns. Also themselves. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/7 "2009-02-01T05:08:10Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmtX6Tj74oU) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/8 "2009-02-01T08:03:51Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > It would only be sporting to teach them how to reload as well. Yes, I’d hoped that would be seen as implicit in my question. But to elaborate: could members of any extant, non-human primate species be trained to _use_ firearms, including shooting an intended target, reloading the weapon, and possibly even cleaning and disassembly/reassembly? Imagine the following scenario, not an all-encompassing one for purposes of the question at hand but still perhaps a useful illustration: I would like to keep vandals and ne’er-do-wells from my banana plantation in the Congo, and have resolved to train a group of chimpanzees\* (raised by me from birth in my underground laboratory) to be self-sufficient in guarding the grounds and shooting all humans aside from myself and the small number of human field hands I’ve trained them _not_ to shoot. I’m away from the plantation for months at a time, so I leave the chimpanzees a stock of ammo for them to take care of themselves. Could it be done? (\*Or bonobos or gorillas or gibbons or baboons or Ourang-Outangs, whatever) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/9 "2009-02-01T08:15:20Z")
Throwing in another preemptive response, though I know it will make the thread far shorter: yes, I know it’s a bad idea, uneconomical, and so on. I’m just curious about whether it can be done at all. I suspect it can: if you can teach chimpanzees and gorillas sign language, why not this? ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/10 "2009-02-01T08:27:38Z")
“yes you could but It would not end well” Charlton Heston ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/11 "2009-02-01T12:00:02Z")
I seem to recall, that chimpanzees are much worse than us at precise hand movement. They can’t, for example, thread a needle. I think that also means that they literally can’t aim precisely. Even if they could understand how to use sights to aim, they couldn’t keep them on target. Also, they would have trouble fitting magazine into magazine well and operating all that small switches. Not to mention that gunshot sounds would be very stressing for them. Overall, I think it would take very long time and very special chimpanzee to learn how to operate standard firearm. Now, if it was some simplified special model with minimum of service needed, big plastic handles and easy point-and-click sight, I could see that. Or, even easier, teach little buggers how to throw hand grenades. They’re already doing good with shit, just show them how to pull the pin. And run. Fast. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/12 "2009-02-01T12:06:15Z")
Did you read “Congo” by Michael Chrichton? He posits a race of specially bred grey gorillas who had been trained by the original inhabitants of a lost city centuries ago to use stone paddles to crush skulls of interlopers/ diamond thiefs. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/13 "2009-02-01T12:08:05Z")
The thread title sounds like the setup for a Parris Island joke. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/14 "2009-02-01T12:19:38Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Imagine the following scenario, not an all-encompassing one for purposes of the question at hand but still perhaps a useful illustration: I would like to keep vandals and ne’er-do-wells from my banana plantation in the Congo, and have resolved to train a group of chimpanzees\* (raised by me from birth in my underground laboratory) to be self-sufficient in guarding the grounds and shooting all humans aside from myself and the small number of human field hands I’ve trained them _not_ to shoot. I’m away from the plantation for months at a time, so I leave the chimpanzees a stock of ammo for them to take care of themselves. Could it be done? > > (\*Or bonobos or gorillas or gibbons or baboons or Ourang-Outangs, whatever) Bonobos are too precoccupied with sex from what I’ve heard about them, and Gorillas are said to be peaceful vegetarians, while Chimpanzees do lead wars in the wild against other groups and also eat meat and have no problem killing leopards. I wonder why you would go the complicated route of guns, though. For one thing, the chimps depend on ammunition not running out, getting wet etc., and neither the guns themselves breaking down etc. Secondly, as [Cecil](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2/can-a-90-lb-chimp-clobber-a-full-grown-man)once said, Chimps are really strong, so you could simply train them to beat up interlopers. Thirdly, Cecil said > [@](#): > > As you might deduce, therefore, the word on keeping chimps as pets is a big negatory. Chimpanzees can never be fully domesticated; they’re aggressive by nature and sooner or later they’ll start to threaten their keepers in subtle ape ways that the untrained eye won’t recognize, until one day — blammo. so I advise against that, too. Lastly, just a WAG I assume the time and money spent on training (and getting) the chimps in the first place is much higher than simply hiring some tough guys to patrol around. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/15 "2009-02-01T12:25:45Z")
> [@puppygod](#): > > I seem to recall, that chimpanzees are much worse than us at precise hand movement. They can’t, for example, thread a needle. I think that also means that they literally can’t aim precisely. Even if they could understand how to use sights to aim, they couldn’t keep them on target. Also, they would have trouble fitting magazine into magazine well and operating all that small switches. Not to mention that gunshot sounds would be very stressing for them. Overall, I think it would take very long time and very special chimpanzee to learn how to operate standard firearm. I’ve never handled one, but wouldn’t a shotgun be much simpler, and obviate the need for precise aim? (My impression of a shotgun is that you somehow break it so it opens in half, you put in one or two large-ish cylinders, you snap it back in place, then aim in some general direction and go to town. But TV might have given me the wrong idea.) ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/16 "2009-02-01T14:12:02Z")
I was reading this, and remebered the old 3 Stooges short, where Moe gives an automatic rifle to a gorilla. Mayhem ensues ---
**Author:** ![puppygod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@puppygod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puppygod)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/17 "2009-02-01T14:22:34Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I’ve never handled one, but wouldn’t a shotgun be much simpler, and obviate the need for precise aim? (My impression of a shotgun is that you somehow break it so it opens in half, you put in one or two large-ish cylinders, you snap it back in place, then aim in some general direction and go to town. But TV might have given me the wrong idea.) Yup, TV gave you the wrong idea. While spread of shots vary, it’s rather something on the order of dinner-plate size at fifty paces. You still have to aim rather carefully. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/18 "2009-02-01T14:38:07Z")
Depends. Would they have to be able to join the NRA? ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/19 "2009-02-01T16:31:13Z")
> [@puppygod](#): > > Or, even easier, teach little buggers how to throw hand grenades. They’re already doing good with shit, just show them how to pull the pin. And run. Fast. Reminds me of the _Gilligan’s Island_ ep where Gilligan teaches a gorilla to throw grenades. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948/20 "2009-02-01T18:17:30Z")
You would be able to see if you gave the ape a squirt gun or a Nerf gun or something. That would be interesting to put some apes and show them how to use a Nerf gun and see what they use the gun for? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-you-train-an-ape-or-monkey-to-use-firearms/483948.md?page=2)