# Could your GOD create a boulder too big for him to move? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091 "2003-05-14T00:07:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/41 "2003-05-14T18:36:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Can you smell the colour nine? Yes, yes, you can. Granted, most people dn’t, but it is eminently possible for people with certain brain conditions to interperet some thoughts and senses in ways they simply should not, accordig to our concept of the world. But there really isn’t anything that repvents the conceot of “nine” from being transmitted via another sense. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/42 "2003-05-14T22:22:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rhum Runner \* > \*\*Again, I don’t see it that way. I see God as being able to create a universe with such contradictions. To me, God can be both A and !A at the same time, even though such seems impossible to us, and screws with our heads. \*\* I get where you’re coming from, but doesn’t this open up the way to a definition (or rather non-definition) of a God so slippery that you can’t really say _anything_ meaningful about him/it? Statements like “God is X” would be right out, because “God is not X” would be equally and simultaneously true (and false). What exactly _could_ one say/think/believe about such an entity that would be in any way worthwhile? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/43 "2003-05-14T22:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by smiling bandit \* > \*\*Yes, yes, you can. Granted, most people dn’t, but it is eminently possible for people with certain brain conditions to interperet some thoughts and senses in ways they simply should not, accordig to our concept of the world. But there really isn’t anything that repvents the conceot of “nine” from being transmitted via another sense. \*\* Synaesthesia, I believe, although it would have to be _double_ synaesthesia in this case, “Cuz nine’s not a color, and even if it was you can’t smell a color”. Anyway, one can stretch an analogy too far… ---
**Author:** ![InLikeFlynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f19dbf/32.png) [@InLikeFlynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InLikeFlynn)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/44 "2003-05-15T00:39:51Z")
I certainly wasn’t trying to pass this age old question off as my own. I just couldn’t resist laying it on the board. I simply enjoy watching the creationists squirm like the little spineless creatures that they have evolved into!!! I like it! I like it a lot!! ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/45 "2003-05-15T00:56:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*I get where you’re coming from, but doesn’t this open up the way to a definition (or rather non-definition) of a God so slippery that you can’t really say _anything_ meaningful about him/it? > Statements like “God is X” would be right out, because “God is not X” would be equally and simultaneously true (and false). > What exactly _could_ one say/think/believe about such an entity that would be in any way worthwhile? \*\* Good point, and I guess, from my own point of view here, the answer is that we believe in god as he has chosen to reveal himself to us. I don’t believe god exsists as both A and !A, but I don’t think that we can deny such is possible, or within his power. Ultimately, my position is that the totality of god is beyond our comprehension, for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known…and all that, if you catch my drift. Certainly I see your point as well, that such a definition invites god to lose meaning for his shapelessness, but that is where, again IMHO, faith enters in. \*\* InLikeFlynn\*\* - :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Avalonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@Avalonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avalonian)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/46 "2003-05-15T01:03:59Z")
Yes, this has been done before, over and over. My favorite thread like this, just because it’s a funny concept and I’m hungry: [Could God create a burrito so big even he couldn’t eat it?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=128040&highlight=burrito+create) ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/47 "2003-05-15T01:26:42Z")
Why, yes. God can create a boulder so large he cannot physically lift it. He can, however, destroy that rock with a matter-disintegrator beam fired from his eyes. He can raise the dead, fly unaided through space, travel through time without creating rifts or paradoxes, generate matter and energy in limitless quantities from nothing, exceed _C_ with no effort and can program any VCR. Fictional characters are limited only by the power of the writer’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/48 "2003-05-15T01:59:50Z")
This isn’t a hard question. Of course God can create a boulder too big for him to move. Of course, since bigness makes no difference to God, what God would actually have to do is get rid of his own power. And that is what all these types of questions are really asking: “can God get rid of his own power?” He probably can, but chooses not to. ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/49 "2003-05-15T06:32:47Z")
The question has nothing to do with God. It simply begs the question. By defining a boulder as one “too heavy for God to lift”, you’re asserting that there is something that God cannot do. Hence the question isn’t valid logically, and there can be no answer. Asserting that “God isn’t limited by logic” muddies the waters because it also doesn’t mean anything. **We _are_** limited by logic and waving a magic wand (or hand for that matter–get it, “hand waving”?) doesn’t provide any insight. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/50 "2003-05-15T06:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > The question has nothing to do with God. It simply begs the question. By defining a boulder as one “too heavy for God to lift”, you’re asserting that there is something that God cannot do. No, the question has _everything_ to do with God, and nothing to do with the boulder. Which makes sense, as the size of a boulder is irrelevant to whether God can lift it. In other words, God is making a boulder he cannot lift, not by making the boulder particularly big, but by making _himself_ unable to lift it. He is taking away that power from himself. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/51 "2003-05-15T08:22:48Z")
That damn God thinks he’s untouchable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/52 "2003-05-19T01:57:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > Omnipotence need not be defined as the ability to do anything, even if that that thing is not a thing at all. And four need not be defined as the sum of two and two, yet it is. Trying to resolve the paradox by simply redefining words ignores the point of the question. C K Dexter Haven > [@](#): > > So, the rock question is answered similarly [by stating that God chooses not to do so], but it’s much less interesting. This too ignores the point of the question. The question is not “Does God create boulders too large for Him to move?” but “ **Can** He create a boulder too large for Him to move?” Your response does nothing to answer that question. > [@](#): > > I’m always amused by people who think that such a silly logical paradox can somehow disprove the existence of God. Are you also amused by people who think that calling a paradox silly is somehow an effective manner of resolving it? I think that this question brings up serious questions about poeple’s conceptions of God, and it is dismissed as simply being “silly” without people actually bothering to come up with a reason why it’s silly. smiling bandit > [@](#): > > My take on this is that confuses the nature of God with an wierd anthropocentric view of God. God does not “lift” rocks. Again, the question is not whether GOd **does** lift them, but whether he **can**. LilShieste > [@](#): > > I kind of feel like this question falls into the same category as: “Are you still beating your wife?” The whole catch-22 thingie. It’s interesting how often believers respond to questions about their belief with variations on the “that’s not a valid question” theme. Mangetout > [@](#): > > It is simply a malformed, illogical question; classically it is ‘an immovable object’ and ‘an irresistable force’ - clearly if one exists then by definition the other cannot. What’s malformed about it? Are you saying that any question which involves two mutually exclusive things is malformed? Rhum Runner > [@](#): > > We shouldn’t mistake our lack of imagination or understanding for a limitation on the power of god. But it seems odd to me to believe in something, when one does not even understand what it means. If someone were to ask me if I believe that God is blafluer, I would respond that I don’t understand what he means by this word “blafluer”. Of course, the fact that I don’t understand the concept of “blafluer” in no way prevents God from having this property, but it **does** stop me from believing He has it. I therefore find it quite strange that people go around saying that God is omnipotent, and then when someone asks them a question regarding what this omnipotence really means, they say that as a mere mortal, they don’t understand God’s omnipotence, but that doesn’t mean that He doesn’t have it. Sure, but why believe in something when you don’t even know what it is that you believe? Nightime > [@](#): > > This isn’t a hard question. Of course God can create a boulder too big for him to move. Of course, since bigness makes no difference to God, what God would actually have to do is get rid of his own power. It seems to me that getting rid of the power to move the boulder is equivalent to simply deciding not to move it, which prompts once a again my objection that this about what God **can** do, not what He **chooses** to do. emarkp > [@](#): > > The question has nothing to do with God. It simply begs the question. By defining a boulder as one “too heavy for God to lift”, you’re asserting that there is something that God cannot do. Huh? No one is defining the boulder as “too heavy for God to lift”. How did you get that? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/53 "2003-05-20T06:18:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > Huh? No one is defining the boulder as “too heavy for God to lift”. How did you get that? > [@](#): > > Could your GOD create a boulder **too big for him to move**? Right there. The question describes the rock as “too big for him to move”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/54 "2003-05-21T05:25:30Z")
That’s bizarre. According to your logic, **every** question begs itself. If I ask “Is 4 prime?” I’m defining 4 to be prime, which begs the original question of whether 4 is prime. ---
**Author:** ![Nightime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Nightime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nightime)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/55 "2003-05-21T12:28:43Z")
> [@](#): > > It seems to me that getting rid of the power to move the boulder is equivalent to simply deciding not to move it, which prompts once a again my objection that this about what God can do, not what He chooses to do. They are not equivalent. If God casts off the power to move the boulder, then he cannot move the boulder. He isn’t choosing not to move it, he can’t move it. So yes, God can create a boulder that he cannot move. He would just have to get rid of the power to move it. Afterwards he would not be able to move it. If you are asking whether or not God can create a boulder he cannot move, but denying him the possibility of getting rid of the power to move the boulder, then the answer is no. But that is like saying “can you do X, if I deny you the possibility of doing X?” ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/56 "2003-05-21T17:33:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > That’s bizarre. According to your logic, **every** question begs itself. If I ask “Is 4 prime?” I’m defining 4 to be prime, which begs the original question of whether 4 is prime. No, primes exist independent of “4”. A boulder “too heavy for God to lift” presumes that God is limited. Oh, and **Nightime** , if God “gave up his powers” (whatever that means) would he still be God? If not, can you really say this is an answer to the question? ---
**Author:** ![zwaldd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a9adbd/32.png) [@zwaldd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwaldd)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/57 "2003-05-21T18:48:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by emarkp \* > \*\* A boulder “too heavy for God to lift” presumes that God is limited._\* But since such a boulder doesn’t exist, God is still unlimited. Doesn’t mean he can’t create one, he’s just got the sense not to. ---
**Author:** ![kunoichi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4da419/32.png) [@kunoichi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kunoichi)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/58 "2003-05-22T02:46:34Z")
I think a lot of people are missing the point of this question. It’s more a matter of faith. If you have faith in God, you don’t care if it is possible or not. If you do care, your faith is weak or non-existent. The very concept of faith is believing in/accepting something on trust rather than displays of power or ability. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/59 "2003-05-22T03:54:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InLikeFlynn \* > \*\*I certainly wasn’t trying to pass this age old question off as my own. I just couldn’t resist laying it on the board. I simply enjoy watching the creationists squirm like the little spineless creatures that they have evolved into!!! I like it! I like it a lot!! \*\* Argh! See me squirm! I am a theist, and as such I must necessarily be a creationist! Oh, how I am vexed and thwarted by the superior intellect and great creative wisdom of those able to repeat hundred-year-old freshman philosophy problems! I see now I must needs abandon my foolish, primitive beliefs and seek out the higher road of multiple-exclamation-point punctuation, but, woe is me, I sorely lack the courage, not to mention a rigid skeleton. Weep, thou strong, for the weak; I am lost, lost, lost. Anybody know when school is back in session this year? ---
**Author:** ![Mayor\_McJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce73a5/32.png) [@Mayor\_McJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mayor_McJesus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091/60 "2003-05-23T06:14:28Z")
I’m solipsist. But yes I could create one, even if it wouldn’t be a _real_ boulder. Of course I try to avoid heavy lifting, so I’ll never know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/could-your-god-create-a-boulder-too-big-for-him-to-move/175091.md?page=4)