# Couldn't of/couldn't have **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 15, 2020, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156 "2020-08-15T05:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/262 "2020-08-22T13:51:35Z")
@CardboardBoxx: more accurately he said was relying on auto grammar check to fix his word choices. Which is lazy, illiterate, and as he found out, error prone. And yes, freshly armed with the knowledge of failure, he continues doing the same thing. Which I read as lazy, willfully ignorant, or both. As more of these checker-things become crowd-sourced we’ll also see them increasingly unable to tell good from bad, high register from lazy and/or ignorant. A different, albeit related, issue is the growth of people who speak to write / post rather than type. I’m part of a 7-person work group that emails within the group a few times per _day_. 4 of us use PCs/Macs. 3 of us read the emails on a phone and speak their replies. The reduction in comprehension between the folks reading emails on the phone or not is stunning. The reduction in the quality of the emails sent = spoken by phone versus not is stunning2. It’s not a good look overall. But it _is_ the future. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/263 "2020-08-22T14:31:00Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > They are not. Where I come from, many things are not homophones even though I have had teachers insist to me that they are (won & one, for example). I’ve lived for extended periods (i.e., years) in four different English-speaking countries. I’ve visited many places within those countries where regional accents differ. I’ve also visited a number other countries where English is the primary language, or one of the primary languages. In every single ~~won~~ one of those places, “one” and “won” are homophones. And, at least in listening to the way that most people use them in everyday speech, so are “could’ve” and “could of.” About the only time when these two can be distinguished is when the person is speaking slowly enough to enunciate every separate word clearly. Then the “o” sound in “of” comes through. I’m not doubting or contradicting your personal experience, but my rather extensive experience in English-speaking regions of the world suggests that @pulykamell is correct: in _ **most** _ English-speaking dialects, “could of” and “could’ve” are homphonous. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/264 "2020-08-22T14:55:44Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > But in some dialects, “of” and “have” do sound very much alike. To be clear, _of_ and _have_ do not sound alike in my dialect. Unstressed _of_ and the contracted form _'ve_ are both pronounced /əv/ in my dialect. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/265 "2020-08-22T16:38:21Z")
> [@CardboardBoxx](#): > > It didn’t “slip out”. That poster has chosen to not give a fuck. If I was an SDMB mod I would be handing out warnings, because it is deliberate trolling He’s been pitted for it before, but he’s got some disability going on there, so people cut him slack once they know. It does seem to me that if he can manage to type “… …”, then he should be able to type “.” Simply ending a sentence rather than having them run on indefinitely would make his posts much more readable. And if he knows where the upper case letters go, maybe he can put them there. How much of his terrible typing is due to disability and how much is due to laziness, I have no idea. He says that > I have add and cerebral palsy that is neurological and some what physical tho if you met me it would take about a week for ya to realize somethings off > > although my English teacher would sympathize with y’all since she wrote in my school file " highly intelligent if he could write a sentence or complete a thought and possibly a task hed rule the world" > [@Nightshadea, learn to type!](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/nightshadea-learn-to-type/766567): > > Nightshadea all your posts are riddled with mistakes. I won’t link to individual ones, as anybody can do a view posts by nightshadea, pick a post at random, and I guarantee there will be at least 5 mistakes. Nightshadea, you are the worst by far. Almost everyone makes typos but you take the piss. Sort it out. Honestly, as often as he tells us how smart he is, he must realize that all we have to go on is what he writes. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/266 "2020-08-22T16:46:26Z")
This is an interesting thread. It is now on it’s 265th post and the penultimate post is directly about the original topic of couldn’t of/shouldn’t of. In the interim it has covered at least the following topics: couldn’t of/shouldn’nt of irrregardless it’s as a possessive alright vs. all right and possessive s the infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters postulate descriptive dictionaries/linguistics who/whom loose/lose, flaunt/flout, hone in/home in Jesus cats towing boats semicolons flatulence I/me/you/we postposed enclitics Caeser (the drink) red beer needs washed borrow vs. loan Canadian Budweiser Trump the Canadian muskeg Saskatchewan Bugs Bunny in Albuquerque Nebraska Reuben sandwiches 420 pennies/shillings/pounds the subjunctive mood and finally back to couldn’t of/shouldn’nt of although it seems to have started off on another tangent with the last post. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/267 "2020-08-22T16:50:41Z")
I’d like to go back to Reuben sandwiches. ---
**Author:** ![CardboardBoxx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardboardboxx/32/7079_2.png) [@CardboardBoxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CardboardBoxx)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/268 "2020-08-22T16:58:36Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > How much of his terrible typing is due to disability and how much is due to laziness, I have no idea. 3% disability, 97% obnoxious dontgiveafuckary. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/269 "2020-08-22T17:09:27Z")
> [@Ynnad](#): > > This is an interesting thread. It is now on it’s 265th post and the penultimate post is directly about the original topic of couldn’t of/shouldn’t of. In the interim it has covered at least the following topics: > > couldn’t of/shouldn’nt of > > irrregardless > > it’s as a possessive > > alright vs. all right and possessive s > > the infinite monkeys with infinite typewriters postulate > > descriptive dictionaries/linguistics > > who/whom > > loose/lose, flaunt/flout, hone in/home in > > Jesus > > cats > > towing boats > > semicolons > > flatulence > > I/me/you/we > > postposed enclitics > > Caeser (the drink) > > red beer > > needs washed > > borrow vs. loan > > Canadian Budweiser > > Trump > > the Canadian muskeg > > Saskatchewan > > Bugs Bunny in Albuquerque > > Nebraska > > Reuben sandwiches > > 420 > > pennies/shillings/pounds > > the subjunctive mood > > and finally back to couldn’t of/shouldn’nt of although it seems to have started off on another tangent with the last post. Thank you for compiling that fine list! The great thing about the Pit is that nothing is ever off-topic. But you forgot to include “penultimate” in that list, and speaking of which, I disagree with you that the post you refer to is the most ultimate in the entire thread. There are many ultimater ones. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/270 "2020-08-22T17:14:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … But you forgot to include “penultimate” in that list, and speaking of which, I disagree with you that the post you refer to is the most ultimate in the entire thread. There are many ultimater ones. It was thinking about the last post when is started typing but then that post became the penultimate post before I finished. So I got to use penultimate in the post even though it’s not in the list. Now this post is the ultimatest. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/271 "2020-08-22T17:32:06Z")
Not ~~any more~~ anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/272 "2020-08-22T17:46:27Z")
Since **wolfpup** says nothing is off-topic, is anyone 100% certain they are pronouncing Worcestershire Sauce correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/273 "2020-08-22T17:59:40Z")
Reading a book on early U.S. History, and it seems that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson often used “it’s” for the possessive pronoun. Was that “okay” back in 1790? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/274 "2020-08-22T18:03:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Thank you for compiling that fine list! The great thing about the Pit is that nothing is ever off-topic. But you forgot to include “penultimate” in that list, and speaking of which, I disagree with you that the post you refer to is the most ultimate in the entire thread. There are many ultimater ones. Seconded. Thank you @Ynnad! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/275 "2020-08-22T18:04:16Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Reading a book on early U.S. History, and it seems that John Adams and Thomas Jefferson often used “it’s” for the possessive pronoun. Was that “okay” back in 1790?   No, but the internet was not widely available back then, so the scope for criticism and mockery was limited. The Constitution itself is full of oddly placed commas (one of which is in the Second Amendment, offering tremendous opportunity for arguments and fisticuffs about its semantic implications). ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/276 "2020-08-22T18:12:27Z")
> [@Ynnad](#): > > Since **wolfpup** says nothing is off-topic, is anyone 100% certain they are pronouncing Worcestershire Sauce correctly? I am. I merely take it for granted that it’s the same proper noun as the “Wooster” in the PG Wodehouse Jeeves stories. Another name used in Wodehouse stories is “Featherstonhaugh” (“Stanley Featherstonhaugh Ukridge” – or sometimes “Featherstonehaugh”). There is a technical college not far from here called “Fanshawe”, and it was some years before I realized that it was a more phonetic spelling of the same name – or rather, that such a creature as a “Featherstonhaugh” actually existed. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/277 "2020-08-22T18:15:58Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … The Constitution itself is full of oddly placed commas … Along with the word chuse and many random capital letters. For extra credit: Find what is relevant to this thread in Article I, Section 10, Clause 2. (Although, and don’t think that it’s not like I don’t wish that I never didn’t have to say this is not true, I guess, at this point, anything is relevant to this thread.) ---
**Author:** ![eburacum\_45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum_45/32/3385_2.png) [@eburacum\_45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum_45)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/278 "2020-08-22T19:33:17Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > a British cash register of the era would handle things like 2 items at 7 pence each isn’t 14 pence. It’s 1 shilling, 2 pence. Hmm. If you are talking about the way people usually spoke the words at the time, two items at sevenpence each (2 x 7d) had a total cost of one-and-tuppence (1/2d). After decimalisation, 7p (seven new pence) was usually contracted to ‘seven new pee’, or just ‘seven pee’. Nowadays people say ‘seven pence’, but never ‘sevenpence’. And as another digression in this digressive thread: I haven’t used any coins at all since March 2020. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/279 "2020-08-22T19:34:10Z")
I dunno. My own pronunciation is along the lines of “woo-stuh-shure”. Or “war-chester-shuh-shuh-shire” when I’m feeling flip. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/280 "2020-08-22T19:47:56Z")
For me it’s something more like “wuh-stur-shure”. Here’s an interesting example that came to mind today These are both fine: “The address was wrong” “The address was incorrect” “He wrote the address wrong.” is much better than “He wrote the address incorrect.” and “He wrote the address incorrectly” is much better than “He wrote the address wrongly.” Between “He wrote the address wrong” and “He wrote the address wrongly,” the second one sounds a bit odd. Between “He wrote the address incorrect” and “He wrote the address incorrectly” the second one sounds far better. Why? I’m not quite sure. I think “to write an address wrong” means something like putting “1312 Mockingbird Lane” instead of “1313 Mockingbird Lane” - but “to write an address wrongly” suggests something like putting the address in the wrong place on the envelope. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156/281 "2020-08-22T19:59:38Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > … "He wrote the address wrongly.” … This makes me think that he wrote the address with some sort of _mens rea_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couldnt-of-couldnt-have/918156.md?page=15)