# Count down to December 19th ... Electorial College voting day **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359 "2016-11-10T14:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/41 "2016-11-15T15:05:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Simply telling sixty million people “Your candidate won, but, nah, a bunch of people appointed to do what has been understood to be a ceremonial job since before your grandparents were born have decided against it” would result in civil unrest the likes of which have not been seen in the USA in a hundred years. Or…the media could inform the voters of the history of the electoral college and spend the next three weeks getting them comfortable with the idea that the electors are tasked with verifying that the candidate is genuinely qualified to take on the roll. Surprisingly, human beings are information processing machines! Strange, I know! ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/42 "2016-11-15T15:37:23Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Fox news article: (no link due to rules) > > … Sidebar question: What rules say “no link”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/43 "2016-11-16T10:27:39Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Sidebar question: What rules say “no link”? 😕 [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810599](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=810599) > [@](#): > > This message board is intended as a medium for public discussion. Do not post spam, including but not limited to advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, solicitations, offers to trade or barter, charitable appeals, or other messages primarily intended to promote a cause, venture, organization, event (except Straight Dope-related events), website, or other entity or activity, whether or not money is involved. I was respectful of a warning from moderator Bone in another thread that was closed, but I see others have now included the link to join the electoral rebels in other threads. These rebels need close to eight percent (8%) of the electoral votes to accomplish their goals. [http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/could-electoral-college-elect-clinton/ar-AAklfwV?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/could-electoral-college-elect-clinton/ar-AAklfwV?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp) > [@](#): > > “If they all vote the way their states voted, Donald Trump will win,” the petition states. “However, they can vote for Hillary Clinton if they choose. Even in states where that is not allowed, their vote would still be counted, they would simply pay a small fine – which we can be sure Clinton supporters will be glad to pay! I think some exciting days are ahead for this election process is not over till the fat lady sings. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/44 "2016-11-16T10:29:36Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Surprisingly, human beings are information processing machines! Strange, I know! Reminds me of the old saying, “perception = reality” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/45 "2016-11-16T10:36:41Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I think a lot of news trucks with camera’s and microphones and satellite feeds will be in someone’s front yard when the news breaks. > > Just happens to be a Tuesday morning (6) weeks after the election … I wonder if President Obama will return from his vacation in Hawaii early? > > Surely at least one elector will sense that his or her duty to cross the party lines. Hillary needs 37 more to Trump’s 37 less votes by the latest count … No, I don’t agree it’s a surety, or even likely. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/46 "2016-11-16T11:15:44Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Or…the media could inform the voters of the history of the electoral college and spend the next three weeks getting them comfortable with the idea that the electors are tasked with verifying that the candidate is genuinely qualified to take on the roll. But that’s not the history of the electoral college. The history of the electoral college is that the electors are tasked with showing up, voting for their guy, and going home. They have never sat as a deliberative body to evaluate a candidate’s genuine qualifications. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/47 "2016-11-16T15:45:28Z")
That may indeed have been the precedent, but the independence of the Elector is as much a part of the system as the Electoral College itself. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/48 "2016-11-16T15:50:17Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > That may indeed have been the precedent, but the independence of the Elector is as much a part of the system as the Electoral College itself. True, great point for an attorney to defend anyone that crosses over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Toxgoddess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Toxgoddess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxgoddess)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/49 "2016-11-16T19:34:03Z")
Agreed that in almost all circumstances, the Electoral College voting is just a formality. The Electors will vote for who they are pledged to, minus perhaps a couple anomalies, and that will be that. But these are not normal circumstances. This is Trump. Just suppose, as a fun hypothetical, in the next few weeks Donald does or says something so egregious, so horrifying that it takes even his supporters aback. Like what, you ask? What ELSE could he possibly say that would be worse than anything he’s already said? Well, suppose he publicly thanked Putin for helping him rig the election…or bragged about how smart he was to hire Russian hackers to help him change voting results in PA, MI or WI. Something that borders on treason, that could not be dismissed as “campaign rhetoric”, but could actually endanger the country. Something that a percentage of electors independently decide they simply cannot allow in a President, and switch their votes to Hillary. What then? Not saying that this will happen, or that I want it to happen. Just wondering what the outcome would be. Besides protests and riots, that is. I would think a Supreme Court challenge would come first, but the Court is 4 to 4 with an empty seat and so… ---
**Author:** ![ricksummon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ricksummon/32/3333_2.png) [@ricksummon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ricksummon)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/50 "2016-11-16T20:25:11Z")
An actual _elector_ is now trying to persuade other electors to vote against Trump; not for Hillary, but for another Republican: > **[The Way Out of Trumpland: Hail Mary Pass to Save the Nation.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-way-out-of-trumpland-hail-mary-pass-to-save-the_b_582b2f65e4b0852d9ec21d4e)** > > The Way Out of Trumpland: Hail Mary Pass to Save the Nation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2016, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/51 "2016-11-18T12:08:26Z")
> [@ricksummon](#): > > An actual _elector_ is now trying to persuade other electors to vote against Trump; not for Hillary, but for another Republican: > > [The Way Out of Trumpland: Hail Mary Pass to Save the Nation. | HuffPost Contributor](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-way-out-of-trumpland-hail-mary-pass-to-save-the_us_582b2f65e4b0852d9ec21d4e) Trump has 306 electoral votes ready to be cast for him … so he could lose 36 of them naming anyone they want to and still win with the necessary 270, but if Hillary doesn’t get 38 more votes she can’t win either. Leaving me in doubt that this could ever happen … you know Trump having 38 votes in a take away action resulting in Hillary now having the necessary 270 and leaving Trump 2 shy at 268 votes. Impossible, but so was Donald Trump winning 306 electoral votes in the first place. Hillary Clintons first speech after losing the election was in effect “Hang in there” “Never give up” I think she is secretly hoping this reversal will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/52 "2016-11-19T01:35:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > the media could inform the voters…and spend the next three weeks getting them comfortable with the idea that the electors are tasked with verifying that the candidate is genuinely qualified to take on the roll [sic]. And this won’t be too hard: All they have to do is take all those articles they wrote before the election that said even though Clinton might win states totaling more than 270 EV’s, the College might elect Trump, and everyone should be fine with that; swap mentions of Clinton and Trump; republish. And if you say that Clinton is qualified, but Trump is not… The customary way to decide such things is by voting. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/53 "2016-11-19T02:18:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Undo the results of the election… what could possibly go wrong? 😂 > > Folks just need to get over it. Trump won. Yup, agreed ---
**Author:** ![OriginalGangster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea5d25/32.png) [@OriginalGangster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OriginalGangster)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/54 "2016-11-19T02:36:11Z")
Better chance we’ll see “Cruz Control” before Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/55 "2016-11-19T16:52:57Z")
> [@Hooleehootoo](#): > > And this won’t be too hard: All they have to do is take all those articles they wrote before the election that said even though Clinton might win states totaling more than 270 EV’s, the College might elect Trump, and everyone should be fine with that; swap mentions of Clinton and Trump; republish. > > And if you say that Clinton is qualified, but Trump is not… The customary way to decide such things is by voting. I remember those fears and then Trump won Ohio and then Florida and then North Carolina and to top it all of wound up winning Pennsylvania late at night. Now for the second part of the election, the one taken for granted every year. The electoral college meets in just 29 and 1/2 days. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/56 "2016-11-19T17:13:38Z")
Electors are, for the most part and on both sides, party hacks. Republican electors will not, under any circumstances or in response to any reasoned argument, vote for Hillary Clinton. The question then becomes how many of them are loyal to the party and how many to Trump personally. As I have said elsewhere, if Hillary were to “release” her electors and urge them to vote for Romney, Ryan, Kasich or some other conservative but qualified Republican, I think most, out of fear of a Trump presidency, would do so. Then the prospect of peeling off enough Republican electors to deny Trump the win becomes something to consider. And don’t give me any of that guff about “denying the will of the people”. That cap’s already over the wall. ---
**Author:** ![Hooleehootoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/eada6e/32.png) [@Hooleehootoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hooleehootoo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/57 "2016-11-19T17:43:50Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Republican electors will not, under any circumstances or in response to any reasoned argument, vote for Hillary Clinton… if Hillary were to “release” her electors and urge them to vote for Romney, Ryan, Kasich or some other conservative but qualified Republican, I think most…would do so. Some months ago I floated the [idea](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=785895) that Clinton should pick a moderate GOP (I threw out the name of Christie Todd Whitman) as her VP choice. I was told there, and I think HC by her actions said, “Move towards the median voter? Why? This election is in the bag!” In a game-theoretic sense, it would seem easier to get the EC to switch to, say, Kasich, than Clinton, as the preferences of the D’s are : HC, Kasich, Trump and the GOP’s are (we postulate) a mix of Trump, Kasich, HC and Kasich, Trump, HC. Politically, though, it’s harder. No one gets their first choice, and it’s clear the USA is in no mood lately to compromise ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/58 "2016-11-20T14:59:55Z")
Ought oh more fuel for the fire: [Hillary Clinton's Popular Vote Lead Over Donald Trump Now Exceeds 1.5 Million Votes - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clintons-popular-vote-lead-donald-trump-now/story?id=43667918) Hillary Clinton’s Popular Vote Lead Over Donald Trump Now Exceeds 1.5 Million Votes ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/59 "2016-11-21T07:08:48Z")
> [@Toxgoddess](#): > > Agreed that in almost all circumstances, the Electoral College voting is just a formality. The Electors will vote for who they are pledged to, minus perhaps a couple anomalies, and that will be that. > > But these are not normal circumstances. This is Trump. > > Just suppose, as a fun hypothetical, in the next few weeks Donald does or says something so egregious, so horrifying that it takes even his supporters aback. Like what, you ask? What ELSE could he possibly say that would be worse than anything he’s already said? > > Well, suppose he publicly thanked Putin for helping him rig the election…or bragged about how smart he was to hire Russian hackers to help him change voting results in PA, MI or WI. Something that borders on treason, that could not be dismissed as “campaign rhetoric”, but could actually endanger the country. Something that a percentage of electors independently decide they simply cannot allow in a President, and switch their votes to Hillary. What then? > > Not saying that this will happen, or that I want it to happen. Just wondering what the outcome would be. Besides protests and riots, that is. I would think a Supreme Court challenge would come first, but the Court is 4 to 4 with an empty seat and so… I’m curious about this as well (in a purely hypothetical sense; I’m not wishing for such a scenario). Or what if it was very close, and a couple of electors died? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/60 "2016-11-21T08:08:35Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > Or what if it was very close, and a couple of electors died? As far as I know, every state has provisions for replacing electors. The party names alternates in advance, or the Secretary of State appoints someone from the same party, or the remaining electors elect a replacement, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359.md?page=4)