# Count down to December 19th ... Electorial College voting day **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359 "2016-11-10T14:31:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/101 "2016-12-06T22:10:33Z")
Ought oh! [http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/florida-voters-sue-for-recount/ar-AAlbJKa?OCID=ansmsnnews11](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/florida-voters-sue-for-recount/ar-AAlbJKa?OCID=ansmsnnews11) > [@](#): > > Three central Florida voters are mounting an unlikely bid to overturn the presidential election result in the Sunshine State. > In a lawsuit filed Monday in Leon Circuit Court, they assert that Hillary Clinton, not Donald Trump, actually won Florida. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/102 "2016-12-06T22:21:43Z")
Hey, I’ll file a similar suit in Utah if Democrats will send me money. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/103 "2016-12-06T22:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > They’re asking for a hand recount of every paper ballot in Florida, at the expense of defendants including Trump, Gov. Rick Scott and the 29 Republican presidential electors from Florida. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/104 "2016-12-08T21:46:12Z")
I wonder if she will get a rebate: > [@](#): > > (CNN)A federal judge has ordered Michigan’s Board of Elections to stop the state’s electoral recount. > > US District Judge Mark Goldsmith issued the order late Wednesday – dissolving a previous temporary restraining order against the Board of Elections that allowed the recount to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/105 "2016-12-08T22:06:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Ought oh! > > [MSN](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/florida-voters-sue-for-recount/ar-AAlbJKa?OCID=ansmsnnews11) What kinds of problems hamper the potential success of this suit, Mr. Quatro? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/106 "2016-12-08T22:11:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What kinds of problems hamper the potential success of this suit, Mr. Quatro? Shhhhh! You’ll scare off my potential donors! ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/107 "2016-12-08T23:42:20Z")
Well as I’ve said, this race is going to have a few “John Ewards” votes. What most people don’t look at is how many electors might turn on Clinton and vote “Bernie Snders” instead (using the naming conventions of the infamous electoral college mishap vote of 2004). Think about the scenario- Clinton might have _less_ votes by electors. Trump might have more. Or the result will be the same, but with fewer votes (like 300/230, the others to other candidates or other people (for as improbable as this might be, Cecil Adams or Ed Zotti might get a vote if the elector doesn’t care about either). Let’s see how many fake news reports come up to show that Clinton has won the election (and see if MSNBC will report it. Improbable? All news agencies aren’t innocent of skewed news. Fox News, MSNBC, CBS and ABC, Chicago Tribune and Chicago Sun-Times- no one is innocent. Alas, this is another topic for another day.) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/108 "2016-12-08T23:47:05Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Ought oh! > > [MSN](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/florida-voters-sue-for-recount/ar-AAlbJKa?OCID=ansmsnnews11) Recount of a 112,000-vote lead? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/109 "2016-12-09T01:16:29Z")
Question about the Electoral College vote itself: Do the electors get to see how the results are going, live, as they cast their ballots? (i.e., “That’s one for Hillary, one for Trump, four for Hillary, two for Trump,”) or do they put their ballots in all at once and then hold their breath as the results are announced? ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/110 "2016-12-09T03:53:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Question about the Electoral College vote itself: Do the electors get to see how the results are going, live, as they cast their ballots? (i.e., “That’s one for Hillary, one for Trump, four for Hillary, two for Trump,”) or do they put their ballots in all at once and then hold their breath as the results are announced? My guess is that they are not restricted to knowing the results of the election. I assume that since some electors are not voting _after_ the results of November 8th, they put their ballets in all at once- on December 19th. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/111 "2016-12-09T13:49:13Z")
All I know is, we’re not removing our Hillary yard sign until after the 19th… and it looks like we’re not the only ones. Hope springs eternal. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/112 "2016-12-09T16:02:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What kinds of problems hamper the potential success of this suit, Mr. Quatro? The integrity of the election process and the people that counted the votes. > [@Velocity](#): > > Question about the Electoral College vote itself: Do the electors get to see how the results are going, live, as they cast their ballots? (i.e., “That’s one for Hillary, one for Trump, four for Hillary, two for Trump,”) or do they put their ballots in all at once and then hold their breath as the results are announced? See post #27 > [@ultimate11](#): > > My guess is that they are not restricted to knowing the results of the election. I assume that since some electors are not voting _after_ the results of November 8th, they put their ballets in all at once- on December 19th. See post #27 > [@Bricker](#): > > Almost any scenario is mathematically possible… but in terms of realistic discussion, my sense is that it’s highly unlikely for sufficient electors to defect in order to change the result that Trump is in. > > But if you’d like detail about the process… > > Each state governor (or his designee) prepares seven original Certificates of Ascertainment and two certified copies. A Certificate of Ascertainment lists the names of the electors and the number of votes they received; separately lists the names of all other candidates for elector and the number of votes received; is signed by the Governor; and carries the State seal. One of the seven and the two certified copies are sent by registered mail to the Archivist of the United States, one David S. Ferriero, who has served in that role since 2009. > > States must make final decisions in any controversies over the appointment of their electors by December 13th if they wish to enjoy the federal “safe harbor” period, wherein their result are presumed valid by Congress. > > After ensuring that the documents are legally sufficient, the Office of the Federal Register is given one and the other two are provided to the House and Senate respectively. > > The state keeps the other six for use during the meeting December 19, 2016. The date is mandatory, but each state can designate the place at which the electors meet. On the 19th, the electors cast their vote for the President and Vice President. > > The voting results are recorded on six original copies of a Certificate of Vote, which will contain two distinct lists, one for President and one for Vice President; a list all persons who received electoral votes for President and the number of electors who voted for each person; a list all persons who received votes for Vice President and the number of electors who voted for each person; and be signed by each elector. > > Each Certificate of Vote is then paired with one of the remaining Certificates of Ascertainment, and each is then sealed and certified by the electors as containing the list of electoral votes of that state for President and Vice President. > > The six are then sent out to: one for Joe Biden, in his capacity as President of the Senate; two for David Ferriero; two to the Secretary of State of the state; one to the Chief Judge of the Federal District Court located where the electors met. > > The statutory deadline for those officials to receive the electoral votes is December 28, 2016. The Archivist and staff from the Office of the Federal Register meet with the Secretary of the Senate and the Clerk of the House shortly thereafter – before January 3rd, in any event – to convey the states’ electors’ votes. > > On January 6, 2017, the new Congress officially tallies the votes in joint session. > > The Vice President, again in his capacity as President of the Senate, presides over the count and announces the results of the Electoral College vote and which person has been elected President and Vice-President respectively. > > If a State submits conflicting sets of electoral votes to Congress, the two Houses acting concurrently may accept or reject the votes. If they do not concur, the votes of the electors certified by the Governor of the State on the Certificate of Ascertainment would be counted in Congress. > > If no Presidential candidate wins 270 or more electoral votes, a majority, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution provides for the House of Representatives to decide the Presidential election. If necessary the House would elect the President by majority vote, choosing from the three candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by state, with each state having one vote. > > If no Vice Presidential candidate wins 270 or more electoral votes, a majority, the 12th Amendment provides for the Senate to elect the Vice President. If necessary, the Senate would elect the Vice President by majority vote, choosing from the two candidates who received the greatest number of electoral votes. The vote would be taken by state, with each Senator having one vote. > > (some of this content is copy-paste from [www.archives.gov](http://www.archives.gov)) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/113 "2016-12-09T16:03:50Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Hope springs eternal. Well, for another week and a half at least ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/114 "2016-12-09T17:52:22Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Electors are, for the most part and on both sides, party hacks. Republican electors will not, under any circumstances or in response to any reasoned argument, vote for Hillary Clinton. > > The question then becomes how many of them are loyal to the party and how many to Trump personally. As I have said elsewhere, if Hillary were to “release” her electors and urge them to vote for Romney, Ryan, Kasich or some other conservative but qualified Republican, I think most, out of fear of a Trump presidency, would do so. Then the prospect of peeling off enough Republican electors to deny Trump the win becomes something to consider. > > And don’t give me any of that guff about “denying the will of the people”. That cap’s already over the wall. I know my reply is late. But, Hello No! More than 2 million votes picked Clinton. I liked her well enough but I’m sure some of those voters just wanted the Democrat to win. It’s pretty certain that Trump will be inaugurated because of the Electoral College rules, outdated as they may be. Why the _Hell_ should Clinton make it easier on the Republicans by giving them a President they’d prefer? Trump is Mr Republican for the next four years. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/115 "2016-12-12T12:10:52Z")
Just seven (7) more days till time will have it’s say … Electoral College please remember these words from the Old testament. “Let you yea be yea and your nay be nay … anything other than this is of the devil” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/116 "2016-12-12T16:47:05Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > Just seven (7) more days till time will have it’s say … > > Electoral College please remember these words from the Old testament. > > “Let you yea be yea and your nay be nay … anything other than this is of the devil” New Testament. But what do you mean? Don’t have electors abstain, don’t write in a 3rd candidate? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/117 "2016-12-12T17:18:41Z")
Your are correct … it is the New Testament Three time no less Matthew 5:37 2 Corinthians 1:17 James 5:12 > [@](#): > > But what do you mean? Don’t have electors abstain, don’t write in a 3rd candidate? I mean let each man and woman decide in their heart ahead of time which way they should go … don’t be wishy washy, don’t be lukewarm. Your state and your political party voted and they said, Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump or a third party choice. All of the states that Trump won now have Republican electors, right? Let their yea be yea and their nay be nay … ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/118 "2016-12-12T19:50:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > What kinds of problems hamper the potential success of this suit, Mr. Quatro? > [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > The integrity of the election process and the people that counted the votes. In what specific way does “integrity of the election process and the people that counted the votes,” hamper the success of the lawsuit you linked to? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/119 "2016-12-12T23:40:35Z")
> [@a poster posting a frequently-seen view](#): > > It’s pretty certain that Trump will be inaugurated because of the Electoral College rules, outdated as they may be. Why the _Hell_ should Clinton make it easier on the Republicans by giving them a President they’d prefer? Trump is Mr Republican for the next four years. My reply isn’t aimed at the writer in particular but at all who say this sort of thing. It’s understandable to try to take some comfort, when faced with a horrible prospect, in ‘well at least we’ll do better in the 2018 elections because Americans will turn on Republicans after getting a load of what a Trump Presidency really means’ (or the like). But I think this is a false comfort. First, though it’s human to assume that things really never change much, this actually _is_ a genuine and significant change. We’ve never before elected a demagogue who’s expressed so much admiration for ruthless authoritarian dictators. Nor have we ever before elected a candidate who wants this many recently-retired military officers to run the Executive branch. To simply assume that all will go on as before seems unwise. Second, this particular authoritarian demagogue has displayed a persistence and a skill at deflecting blame to scapegoats. This will ensure that at least half the country will blame not Republicans, but instead Democrats, Muslim Extremists, Black Activists, Latino Gangs, and Feminist Militants for all that goes wrong. So: yeah, we shouldn’t be taking any comfort in thinking the GOP will pay a price at the ballot box for Trump’s Trumpishness…because that probably won’t happen. … Should Hillary ask her electors to vote: P: John McCain; VP: Hillary Clinton …? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359/120 "2016-12-13T00:06:35Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > We’ve never before elected a demagogue who’s expressed so much admiration for ruthless authoritarian dictators. Nor have we ever before elected a candidate who wants this many recently-retired military officers to run the Executive branch. I don’t know how you’re quantifying things like “so much admiration” or where your cut-off is for “ruthless” vs non-ruthless authoritarian dictators, or how you’re quantifying the “recently” in recently-retired, but do you feel like this is a statement of fact, supported by some research into past presidents and their nominees that you’ve done, or should I just take it as a bit of editorial flair which isn’t really supported by an underlying factual basis? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/count-down-to-december-19th-electorial-college-voting-day/771359.md?page=7)