# Countdown To Armageddon - Will North Korea Do It Just To Save Face? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 20, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777 "2010-12-20T02:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/21 "2010-12-20T14:20:19Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Have you figured out how to blame Bush yet?😉 He did get kind of lazy, towards the end . . . **Could’ve** started something with Iran . . . ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/22 "2010-12-20T14:20:43Z")
[I guess not.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101220/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_clash) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/23 "2010-12-20T15:04:11Z")
I think the difference here was that South Korea made it very very clear that they would respond to force with force, and I suspect that China was probably telling NK that they’d get no support if they fired on SK during the exercises. That and, well, the South Korean populace is getting so riled up by all this bullshit from North Korea that they’re growing very unlikely to support any aid to the North. Kill a few more soldiers and civilians and they probably wouldn’t get another grain of rice for years. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/24 "2010-12-20T15:19:13Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > [Fighters were dispatched to the area](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardment_of_Yeonpyeong#Timeline), but there is no indication that they actually fired into or at North Korean positions. Given how well dug-in many of the NK artillery is in many places, it’s not likely that even a substantial number were knocked out by SK counter-battery fire. Caves are WW-II era defense tactics. If they were fired on they are gone. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/25 "2010-12-21T01:52:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Caves are WW-II era defense tactics. If they were fired on they are gone. In these days of GPS guided bombs and artillery shells, yeah. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/26 "2010-12-21T01:58:18Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > You have to ask what is in the self interest of the NK ruling elite. They seem to fear things like domestic insurgency, fading out of the public’s view, the power transition of Kim Jong Il to his son being seen as a moment of weakness (possibly a military coup or domestic invasion). > > Supposedly there were several serious military coup plots during the famine of the 1990s. One involved high ranking generals marching on Pyongyang and other cities. It was found out and the ones planning it killed, but it isn’t unrealistic to think NK is worried that as power transitions to the son (who seems totally unqualified and unknown) that they fear domestic and international attacks. > > So my guess is they will do things to show the ruling elite are vicious, brutal and cruel, but stop short of all out war (which they would lose and end up like Saddam Hussein if they started. Hiding in holes in the ground until they are found and killed). The north will lose all out war against the South & US (Japan would help the South & US in a war in whatever way it could I’d assume). And I’m guessing they know that. China doesn’t seem like they’d help them. The official NK military would probably be destroyed in a week as a guess. > > So another minor skirmish designed to intimidate would be my guess. North Korea blinked. **Wesley** , I’m going to venture that your opinion ended up being more accurate, and that’s why NK stood down. Of course, Bill Richardson’s visit may have something in it besides the published views. I’m betting he carried a message from the US straight from _The Godfather_: Richardson made them an offer they couldn’t refuse. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777/27 "2010-12-21T03:07:03Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > North Korea blinked. We’re seeing a very new dynamic in the situation. For roughly a decade, the US gave and gave and gave to North Korea while they extorted us for a stop to their nuclear program, and then nuked up. South Korea gave and gave and gave to North Korea while they extorted the south for a stop to their nuclear program and warmer relations, and then nuked up and continued to threaten the south. Obviously paying the extortionistic demands didn’t work. It appears that stating that, in no uncertain terms, they’ll defend themselves from NK aggression has given pause to some of the saner elements in the NK regime. > [@Magiver](#): > > Caves are WW-II era defense tactics. If they were fired on they are gone. Nah. The evidence shows that the NK rocket attacks came from MRL batteries parked in dugout berms, and the counterbattery fire was off target by a bit and landed in an empty field. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-armageddon-will-north-korea-do-it-just-to-save-face/564777.md?page=1)