# Countdown to war with Venezuela **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [November 28, 2025, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201 "2025-11-28T06:19:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/21 "2025-11-29T19:14:29Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > US has oil _now_. But the Bakken field is winding down. The Alaskan field is about tapped out after 50 years. I don’t share your optimism Trump (or the warmongering sycophants that currently have his ear) are capable of that kind of long term planning for America Not to mention, we are not talking about an actual full invasion and occupation here, which is what it would take to secure any oil. That would take 100s of thousands of troops and months of planning (and even trump would grasp that it would likely end in disaster) ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/22 "2025-11-29T19:21:31Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Would he put boots on the ground? I know that Venezuela has large cities and large open beach resort areas as does Colombia ( mission creep, thy name is Trump ). I know that back in the day, Colombia still had some jungle areas. Would war with Venezuela mean jungle warfare…? I don’t think we know that Trump is going to do _anything_ at all. You have to remember that he’s a reality-show host who is just doing another reality show, and he’s watching the ratings day-to-day, week-to-week. It’s possible that all of this is bluster, or a whim. It’s possible that he’s floating a trial balloon to see who supports it. It’s possible that he’s keeping it on a slow boil so he can stir it up whenever domestic issues get too hot for him. Trump doesn’t even know what he’s doing, so I’m not going to pretend I know what Trump is doing, and I think it’s unwise for anyone else to assume they know what Trump is doing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/23 "2025-11-29T19:30:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Beyond the combination of brown people, socialism, fentanyl and gangs, which is like catnip for the Maga base (but not Trump, he doesn’t care about any of those things beyond talking points to excite his base), You’re probably right about the other three, but Trump’s hatred of brown people is genuine. And we couldn’t actually gain any benefit from Venezuela’s oil. We couldn’t even gain any benefit from Iraq’s oil, despite them having a lot more of it, us spending more resources there, and oil being relatively more expensive at the time. But that’s irrelevant. Remember, we’re dealing with stupid people, here. What’s relevant is that a lot of them probably think that we could gain some benefit from Venezuela’s oil. Which helps to prop up Trump’s Coalition of Stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/24 "2025-11-29T19:34:42Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I don’t see any particular evidence Trump has a problem with Maduro (unlike say Biden, Obama, or every single woman who has held a position of power in opposition to him). He is just a convenient outlet for Trump’s current desire to start a war with someone. Venezuela is a socialist country that’s had the right-wing nutters whipped into a fringe since the Clinton administration. They always wanted Chavez’s head on a pike, and like Bin Laden, he unforgivably died on Obama’s watch, so they never got to go after him. But Venezuela has remained a bugbear for them, and Maduro is the new face of it. Brown guy, brown name, he’ll do. I really wonder if Trump is thinking this is a Grenada/Panama gambit for him. Grenada was a bullshit anti-communist invasion that boosted Reagan’s stature before the 1984 election. Panama didn’t do much for Bush 1, but Trump must’ve been impressed at sending the Army into Latin America to bring back a drug kingpin wriggling in manacles, and must be thinking that would be a very cool feather in his cap. But as I said in an earlier post, predicting Trump is a fool’s errand. He’s turning up the “military action” dial and looking back at the crowd to see if they applaud. Nobody really knows what signals are making it through his media filter, or how he’s interpreting them, how he’ll choose to respond, or how much he’s even involved in the decision here. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/25 "2025-11-29T19:37:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You’re probably right about the other three, but Trump’s hatred of brown people is genuine. True of course, but he has no particular beef against Maduro beyond the fact he isn’t white (and doesn’t speak English as a first language) ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/26 "2025-11-29T19:47:58Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Venezuela is a socialist country that’s had the right-wing nutters whipped into a fringe since the Clinton administration. They always wanted Chavez’s head on a pike, and like Bin Laden, he unforgivably died on Obama’s watch, so they never got to go after him Yup and that’s why he choose Venezuela. But Trump has never cared about any of that stuff, any more than he cared about abortion, or any of the other things the Maga base gets so excited about. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > really wonder if Trump is thinking this is a Grenada/Panama gambit for him 100% definitely (remember in Trump’s head it’s still 1983, his halcyon days) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/27 "2025-11-29T21:23:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Trump doesn’t even know what he’s doing, so I’m not going to pretend I know what Trump is doing, and I think it’s unwise for anyone else to assume they know what Trump is doing. Of course. He never discovered the real world. The very thought of it doesn’t escape him, it was never there and was never looked for. The world is what is in his mind. That’s as far as it goes. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/28 "2025-11-29T22:00:08Z")
I suspect that they’re considered legitimate targets for military action in much the same way that pirates (also civilians, FWIW) are considered legitimate targets for a nation’s military. The argument that this is illegal is less around it being civilians and more around due process and actually knowing what’s on the boats before we sink them and kill the crews. We shouldn’t be saying “Drug boat! Sink it!”, instead of trying to get the crew and cargo and put them through the legal system. And in that case, AFAIK they have to be in US waters. Which also isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2025, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/29 "2025-11-29T22:44:59Z")
> [@bump](#): > > The argument that this is illegal is less around it being civilians and more around due process and actually knowing what’s on the boats before we sink them and kill the crews. We shouldn’t be saying “Drug boat! Sink it!”, instead of trying to get the crew and cargo and put them through the legal system. And in that case, AFAIK they have to be in US waters. Which also isn’t the case. Yeah you can’t just cruise around the 7 seas going “pirates! they’re coming right for us!” so you can just pop whoever you feel like. Especially when you’re sitting in an AC-130J gunship well out of harm’s way. Especially looks bad when there are witnesses who survived the strike, and you go ahead and grease them too. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/30 "2025-11-30T02:07:21Z")
> [@bump](#): > > We shouldn’t be saying “Drug boat! Sink it!”, And we also probably should not be saying: “Kill all survivors!” Because that is unequivocably a crime. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/31 "2025-11-30T02:15:37Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Yup and that’s why he choose Venezuela. But Trump has never cared about any of that stuff, any more than he cared about abortion, or any of the other things the Maga base gets so excited about. He certainly does not care about who is selling drugs in the United States: **Pardons** _Robert C. Sherrill_ Conspiracy to distribute and possession with intent to distribute 500 grams or more of cocaine Desiree Perez Conspiracy to distribute cocaine Brian Lyle McSwain Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine Joshua James Smith Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine Russell Paul Plaisance Conspiracy to unlawfully import cocaine into the U.S. Alice Marie Johnson Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute cocaine; attempted possession of 12 kilos of cocaine with intent to distribute; attempted possession of 9 kilos of cocaine; attempted possession of 75 kilos of cocaine; attempted possession of 10 kilos of cocaine; conspiracy to commit money laundering; money laundering ($1.5 million); structuring monetary transactions Michael Anthony Tedesco Conspiracy to possess with intent to distribute and distribute in excess of 5 kilograms of cocaine Larry Hoover, who was serving multiple life sentences in federal prison for [crimes linked to his role leading the Chicago-based Gangster Disciples] And on and on and on. And of course coming soon, a pardon for Orlando Hernández, the former president of Honduras who is serving a 45-year sentence in a U.S. prison for drug trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/32 "2025-11-30T03:03:06Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And we also probably should not be saying: “Kill all survivors!” Because that is unequivocably a crime. If only we lived in reality where things like “being unequivocally a crime” might actually matter in the US… > **[US military carried out second strike killing survivors on a suspected drug...](https://www.cnn.com/2025/11/28/politics/us-military-second-strike-caribbean?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark)** > > The US military carried out a follow-up strike on a suspected drug vessel operating in the Caribbean on September 2 after an initial attack did not kill everyone on board, sources familiar with the matter told CNN. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/33 "2025-11-30T03:21:26Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yeah you can’t just cruise around the 7 seas going “pirates! they’re coming right for us!” so you can just pop whoever you feel like. Especially when you’re sitting in an AC-130J gunship well out of harm’s way. True, but off Africa it’s fair game to wreck those pirates however we feel works best. My point was that miltiaries aren’t limited in any way, shape, or form to declared, uniformed enemy combatants. It’s more a matter of a nation deciding that it’s in the nation’s best interest to use force to achieve its aims- diplomacy by other means, as the saying goes. But Venezuelan drug boats are a law enforcement activity, not a military one. We have no beef with the legitimate government of Venezuela, and the big issue that I see is not that we’re wrecking Venezuelan boats or killing Venezuelan civilians, it’s that we’re doing so indiscriminately. If we _knew_ that these were loaded to the gunwales with cocaine, and they didn’t respond to hails or heave to when requested, then fine, to the bottom they go. But we can’t just decide randomly that Venezuelan boats heading in the general direction of the US are drug boats and sink them. That’s just insane. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/34 "2025-11-30T11:23:42Z")
> [@bump](#): > > True, but off Africa it’s fair game to wreck those pirates however we feel works best. My point was that miltiaries aren’t limited in any way, shape, or form to declared, uniformed enemy combatants. It’s more a matter of a nation deciding that it’s in the nation’s best interest to use force to achieve its aims- diplomacy by other means, as the saying goes. That’s not correct. There are limits and guidelines both on what permits you to declare piracy, how you treat suspected pirates, as well as for the military attacking non-uniformed military combatants. Suspected pirates are to be detained, not blown to pieces from 20,000 feet up. > [@bump](#): > > If we _knew_ that these were loaded to the gunwales with cocaine, and they didn’t respond to hails or heave to when requested, then fine, to the bottom they go. You couldn’t be more wrong about that. If it’s a law enforcement action rather than military, then the rules of engagement are _more_ restrictive, not less, and summary destruction of a vessel is not permitted even if we “know” they are loaded with cocaine. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/35 "2025-11-30T14:51:51Z")
The point is we don’t know for sure if there were narcotics on these boats. To act as investigator, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner from 20,000 feet is lawlessness personified. Wouldn’t it make a lot more sense to seize the vessel and its crew, verify that the cargo was indeed narcotics, and then grill the crew- where were you going? who was your supplier? what names can you give us? Seems to me that would be much more effective than indulging Pete Kegsbreath in his drunken masturbatory fantasies about being Dirty Harry. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/36 "2025-11-30T18:01:49Z")
What I’m getting at is that it’s our own government that decides when it’s piracy, law enforcement, military, etc… But _we’re not even following our own rules_. That’s the most disturbing thing here to me. I’m not so much distressed that we’re attacking other countries; unfortunately that stuff does happen. It’s that we’re not even putting the usual legal fig leaf over it; it’s just sinking boats because some guy in Washington says they’re drug boats. Assuming the Democrats win the midterms, I’d like to see there be a reckoning in the military- anyone who greenlit the strikes at any level needs to at the minimum get shit-canned, and some need to spend time at Leavenworth- specifically the higher officers. Really hammer home that they need to be very aware of what are and aren’t illegal orders, and refuse stuff like this that doesn’t fall within the normal realm of military operations. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/37 "2025-11-30T18:33:14Z")
Also worth nothing that Venezuela both _has oil_ and is also _oil-adjacent:_ > **[Guyana–Venezuela territorial dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyana%E2%80%93Venezuela_territorial_dispute)** > > There is an ongoing territorial dispute between Guyana and Venezuela over the Essequibo region (Spanish: Guayana Esequibacode: spa promoted to code: es ; .mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}Spanish pronunciation: \[ɡwaˈʝana eseˈkiβa\] ⓘ), a 159,500 km2 (61,600 sq mi) area west of the Essequibo River and even parts south of it. The terri... > **[Why Venezuela is threatening to annex Guyana’s oil-rich province of Essequibo](https://theconversation.com/why-venezuela-is-threatening-to-annex-guyanas-oil-rich-province-of-essequibo-219352)** > > A longstanding territorial dispute could flare into open confrontation in South America. > **[Explainer: the Venezuela and Guyana oil dispute - Offshore Technology](https://www.offshore-technology.com/features/explainer-the-venezuela-and-guyana-oil-dispute/)** > > Guyana's economic development is at risk due to Venezuela's interference with its oil exploration and discoveries. > **[As Venezuela threatens to invade oil-rich Guyana, U.S. worries about how far...](https://gordoninstitute.fiu.edu/news-events/the-policy-spotlight/2023/as-venezuela-threatens-to-invade-oil-rich-guyana-u.s-worries-about-how-far-maduro-will-go.html)** It IS about drugs – in this case, fossil fuel – and we ARE hopelessly addicted. Also worth remembering that - just like _with_ Iraq - nobody ever said it was about _cheap_ oil. Control over supply = control over price. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/38 "2025-11-30T20:06:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What I’m getting at is that it’s our own government that decides when it’s piracy, law enforcement, military, etc… > > But _we’re not even following our own rules_. I’ll agree to the extent that Hegseth hasn’t set forth any legal reasoning for what he’s doing (because there isn’t one). I’ll continue to disagree that the US can just declare an unidentified vessel to be a pirate or narco-terrorist and simply blow them out of the water. That’s just not true, even if cocaine were spilling over the side and the crew were doing lines in plain sight. Hegseth hasn’t set forth any legal justification for what he’s doing because he knows there’s no legal support for it. If he’d requested clarification on the law, he’d have been told to detain the crews (or at least make the attempt). But he wants a lethal spectacle with no scrutiny or oversight, so he just blew them out of the water to ensure there were no witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/39 "2025-11-30T22:04:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’ll agree to the extent that Hegseth hasn’t set forth any legal reasoning for what he’s doing (because there isn’t one). [![](https://eastsidecellars.com/cdn/shop/files/image_5d6e8acc-189e-4a71-9313-b001d66e61a9.jpg?v=1728151257&width=713) ](https://eastsidecellars.com/cdn/shop/files/image_5d6e8acc-189e-4a71-9313-b001d66e61a9.jpg?v=1728151257&width=713) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2025, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201/40 "2025-11-30T22:08:23Z")
Wouldn’t this one be a more relevant reason? [![](https://amsterwine.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0623%2F8411%2F1789%2Fproducts%2Fbacardi-rum-black-375ml-729410_800x.jpg%3Fv%3D1710305198&w=1920&q=85) ](https://amsterwine.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.shopify.com%2Fs%2Ffiles%2F1%2F0623%2F8411%2F1789%2Fproducts%2Fbacardi-rum-black-375ml-729410_800x.jpg%3Fv%3D1710305198&w=1920&q=85) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countdown-to-war-with-venezuela/1025201.md?page=3)