I would love to see a cite from that TV show, jmullaney, 'cause it ain’t true. Over the course of my career I have charged off many counterfeit bills returned to us by the Federal Reserve Bank. If you can convince the Fed to reimburse I can get you a good paying job anywhere in the country.
If by “the Feds” you mean the US Secret Service, then you are free to do so. You’ll get the same form to fill out, be the same amount poorer, and get the same “Have a nice day!” when you leave. But whatever floats your boat. Just don’t pass the bill on, or you may have some 'splaining to do.
James Randi did a demo for Congress. He took a normal looking bill, wiped the pen on it as instructed. The pen indicated it was a real bill. He then held up the bill to show that it was in fact a counterfeit on newsprint.
I’m sorry but after my friend got screwed by the bank out of his $20 there was no form or anything to deduct the lost money from his taxes. Just an ‘apology’ from the branch manager saying there was nothing he could do and that he was required to confiscate the bill. O.k. fine, so if I do the honest thing, I lose $20 because I got caught with the ‘hot potato’. So what is my incentive to remove the bill from circulation? I think the FDIC or some government body should step up to the plate and reimburse you for funny money you take out of circulation. Yeah, I know, suddenly every asshole on the street will start xeroxing $1000 bills and going into the bank demanding they get a real one because they were ‘screwed’, and the US monetary system comes crashing down the next day. Still, there has to be a happy medium.
It seems to me that a person has one reasonable chance to find a fake bill and not get screwed: When you first get the bill. If you don’t find it until later, then you likely won’t even know where you got it, and certainly won’t be able to prove it. If you were too lazy/busy/trusting to check your cash when you got it out of the ATM, tough luck. During my brief stint in the food industry, we were required to check any bill we received larger than a five. I never found any counterfeits, personally, but if I had, then I could have told the customer right then and there, “No, I can’t take this, it’s fake”, and I would have been fine. If everyone did this, then the fakes would never leave the counterfeiter’s hands in the first place.
Yarster, you do have a very strong incentive to remove the bill from circulation: If you don’t, you’re committing a felony, and can get hit with some pretty hefty jail time. Sure, you probably won’t get caught, but is the risk really worth twenty bucks?
Okay, here’s a question. I’ve known people who for kicks pull the mylar strip out of the new bills. What happens to these bills? Are they still legal tender? Will they be deemed counterfeit by the bank? What if you try to pay and the bank catches you, are you now screwed? (I know, that would be screwing yourself.)
Chronos,
Why is the ‘fear of getting caught’ some kind of an incentive? This assumes that if someone catches me with the fake bill I’m going to break down crying and say (and please add heavy sarcasm voice for effect) “My God, Mr. Burger King Cashier, I KNEW that bill was fake and tried to pass it off to you anyway! Please call the police right now as I insist you have me arrested!” Of course, I would act surprised and shocked just like my friend did when he unknowingly passed the bill. And we are talking about $20s here. Imagine if you get caught with a fake $100! On a percentage basis, I’d think there would be a lot more of those floating around in the world, and you can bet I’m not getting caught with that ‘hot potato’ - incidentally, my compliments to the ‘hot potato’ analogy poster as this fits my posts quite well.
No, no no. You must turn the bill in. Keeping it is a crime.
And, (note yarster)- “passing” it is a much more serious crime. Why would you risk a Federal felony conviction for $20? Besides, the act is morally wrong. I suppose you could probably go around and kill homeless people with very little chance of being caught- does not make ie right. If you walk into a store and you KNOW you could walk out with $20 bucks of stuff with NO chance of being caught, does THAT become right? Maybe the person who ends up with the “hot potatoe” you have passed on truly NEEDS the $20 that will be taken from them.
As far as taxes go, it beomes a ‘casualty loss’, which at $20 is insuff to claim- too small. But you turn it in for the sense of having done your civic duty, and the right thing- not to mention the Karma.
To my knowledge, I’ve never handled or even seen a counterfeit bill of any kind. It’s entirely possible that I have unknowingly passed one or more counterfeit bills somewhere along the line.
I’m always hearing things about how good modern counterfeiters are getting, and the increasingly complicated security measures in US money seems to back that up. What are the chances of a funny $20 coming in to my hands and my not recognizing it?
I do not carry one of those pens with me to check every bill I get, and I do not hold all my change up to the light while standing at the counter at McDonald’s. I also don’t take a lot of time to scrutinize what I get from ATM’s. (Would I have any recourse anyway if an ATM did spit a fake bill? I’m guessing not.)
Perhaps some will say that I’m not exercising the diligence that I should, and hence would deserve whatever funny money I get stuck with; I’m not sure I agree, but the basic question stands. How likely is a cursory inspection to discover quality counterfeit bills?
The cynic in my wants to say that ignorance is bliss. If I don’t know that a bill is fake, I can have no qualms about spending it. Could I, or perhaps more to the point, would I be arrested for accidentally passing a quality fake $20 at my local Burger King?
An observation from up North (and perhaps a small hijack...sorry)...I see American nickels and dimes very occasionally in my change. However, U.S. pennies and Canadian pennies are frequently confused, and I see them all the time in my change.
Banks here and in the U.S., in my experience do try to stop coins going back and forth. Canadian banks will accept no American change, just bills....even if you are just trying to convert your money.
The smaller U.S. banks that I have dealt with refuse to accept the Canadian $1 and $2 coin, even when you are converting. They do want to make it convenient to themselves. Once, a few years after we switched to the $2 coin, I was changing my money at a U.S. bank, they said they were out of cash...and they said I could have the $43 Canadian I was owed, if I took a $5 and these 19 Canadian $2 they were stuck with. I didn't mind...as I was looking for a few $2 bills. But, it was kind of unusual.
1st, the 20’s are not quality, they are REAL obvious, once you look. They depend on you not looking. The 100’s are a LOT better, we all look at 100’s. The best test on the bills is just look at thm, and feel them, fake bills feel fake. If it looks or feels fake, time for another test. I like the “thread test”, ie make sure the little blue and red threads are actually IN the paper.
It would be unlikely, but possibly embarrassing, and thats about all. Some estab call the SS or police ALWAYS if they find you passing. Then you have to explain that it was unkowingly to the Secret Service, who have NO sense of humor. Well, you would probably get away with it. But, let us postulate that you told someone, or complained about the bill, or otherewise let others KNOW you knew it was counterfiet. Very bad. Thus, if you really did not know, you will be OK, but if you decided to play “hot potato”, and risk a federal felony charge for a crappy 20 bucks, then you deserve it.
I agree with Yarster that not providing any incentive to turn in counterfeit bills seems counterproductive. Granted, there is a large disincentive to passing them, but, there is no reward for turning them in. All stick, no carrot. Wouldn’t it be better to encourage people to more carefully examine their money? Right now, as some have said, I’m better off not looking at my money at all. In the unlikely event I have a funny $20 and get caught passing it I can truthfully plead ignorance. It is very unlikely I will be prosecuted and even more unlikely I would be convicted.
So what, exactly, is my incentive?
I think that counterfeit bills should be redeemable at banks. The bank would then turn the fake over to the Feds, who would give the bank a shiny new bill. Fed is out the cost of producing the bill, which is what, 4 cents? Bummer. In order to discourage people from simply making fakes and turning them in for real bills, a record would have to be kept of who had turned in what bill.
gEEk
on this one… I certainly expect some abuse of a ‘turn in your fake for a real one’ campaign, but overall, I have to think it would be very little. First off, I doubt anyone would be turning in an obvious xerox of a bill and expect real money in exchange. That leaves only the REAL counterfeit bills (yes, an oxymoron, but you know what I mean). I’m talking about the high quality fakes. Who then would be turning in a whole trash bag full of fake bills expecting payment, especially if the person turning them in was recorded by some government body. And if you don’t want to give me $20, $50, or $100 in cold hard cash, give me a deduction on my taxes. Above $100 and I think the SS should investigate pretty thouroughly which would really discourage counterfeiters. In fact, do people ever use anything higher than a $100 bill in the real world?
My sensible approach says that the burden is on you to check all bills when you receive them. If you fail to identify them as counterfeit, then you get stuck with the hot potato if the next person is more watchful than you. I know it sucks to be the hot potato receiver, but that’s the breaks.
Regarding incentive, reimbursement plans seem at first glance to be a good incentive, but my common sense tells me they introduce more problems than they fix. Sure the current plan is all stick, no carrot, but that stick is pretty impressive.
Of course you probably are screwed bigtime if you ATM busts you. Not sure what I would do in that case, if the bank won’t reimburse. What can you do? Report that company to the SS and say “Hey, they passed bogus money.” Is there a way to get the SS to come down on the ATM company, make them put stricter controls in place?
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a fake. I’ve never noticed. Closest I’ve come is watching someone pull the mylar strips out of the new bills. Nobody’s answered my question yet. Are they now fakes? I suspect that if somebody checked them and noticed the strip was missing, they could refuse to take it, maybe confiscate it. Confirmations?
Regarding pulling the strips out of new bills, I always thought that modifying money in any way is illegal. In tourist areas, I sometimes run across machines that, if you put in a penny and two quarters, will press you a copper souvenier. They always have a disclaimer on these machines saying something to the effect that it’s legal to modify your penny in this manner because it’s protected by law. From this I assume that, in general, it’s not legal to modify money by pulling out the strips. Just a guess though; anyone have a legal cite?
No; it’s only illegal if you do it with fraudulent intent. In the case of pressed pennies, it’s not a problem because you won’t be passing that currency further, and especially not as something more than a penny. Likewise it’s not illegal to write or stamp www.wheresgeorge.com onto bills, because it’s still very clear that they are legal tender and of their original denomination.
As for pulling the strips out, that might be illegal under this clause, because the bill is then likely to be rejected as counterfeit at some later time, screwing the person who got stuck with the hot potato.