# counterfeit, fake or reproduction goods. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 15, 2010, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053 "2010-02-15T07:59:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/21 "2010-02-16T18:11:33Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > That’s great if you are an advanced scuba diver. 😃 I don’t think you have to be an advanced scuba diver to own a washing machine. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/22 "2010-02-16T18:20:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think you have to be an advanced scuba diver to own a washing machine. And my watch comes kayaking with me always. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/23 "2010-02-16T18:35:42Z")
When we went to China a couple years ago, we went to the Oriental Pearl Market in Beijing. It was a 5-6 story building with one floor pearls and jewelry and the others had knock-off goods. It was probably the most awesome shopping experience I’ve ever had in my life. Yes, a lot of the items were really bad knock-offs with hilarious misspellings (I bought my friend a hat with a silhouette of a naked cowgirl that said “Sabble Up”). We bought a couple iPod MP **4** players which from a distance might look like an Apple, but upclose it was far from it. Our oldest daughter bought 6 purses, all designer, which caused a bit of a kerfuffle on our way through US Customs to the point that whenever we come back from a foreign country, my SO always gets his bags searched. But what made the experience so much fun were the vendors, aggressive chinese girls, usually in their late teens/early twenties about 4’8" and 90 lbs soaking wet, and they could grab us by the arm and literally pull us into their little kiosk area and block it so we couldn’t leave until we bargained with them. They would turn up their noses at being low-balled with phrases like “I thought we were friends” which was all kinds of awesome. In Shanghai, they tried to keep it a little more on the DL. An innocuous shop of standard tourist fare would have a secret panel wall that would open up to a den of knock-off treasures. It’s been a couple years since we’ve gone, the faux iPods have long since been broken, the purses have threads and broken seams, and I think a hand fell off of the watch on the plane and stayed in the storage compartment of the seat. It was all junk, but we probably knew that at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/24 "2010-02-16T18:54:19Z")
Speaking of kayaking, my $100 Casio does fine when I use it for kayaking. I’m sure it would be fine if I ran it through the wash since I doubt that’s any harder on it than kayaking. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/25 "2010-02-16T19:13:27Z")
My 7$ Levi House jeans, (Bangkok), outlasted by Levi Strauss jeans by almost a year. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/26 "2010-02-16T19:17:09Z")
There is a concept called “using price as a way to measure quality” which means people assume higher price = better quality. Sometimes a higher price has more quality but not always. For example my Honda has much better quality than some cars that cost 2 or 3 times more. What it does not have is stuff I don’t care about like wood grain, GPS, fancy AC, leather seats, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/27 "2010-02-16T19:41:41Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Speaking of kayaking, my $100 Casio does fine when I use it for kayaking. I’m sure it would be fine if I ran it through the wash since I doubt that’s any harder on it than kayaking. My little Timex Indiglo did fine kayaking too, as far as water goes, but its face didn’t hold up to getting scratched on rocks. It was a sad, sad, day when I had to get rid of that puppy. It was a favorite. The crystal of my new watch can not get scratched unless you tried to score it with a diamond. Those are the kinds of materials that do not get used in knock-offs, because the manufacturing price would be too high compared to the selling price. Note: I don’t own a $10,000 watch or anything, I just have a “nice” watch. When you compare the costs of all the watches I’ve destroyed through my activities, it’s worth it. I’ve blown through enough $100 watches that I could have bought this one a few times over. ETA: > [@Bijou](#): > > There is a concept called “using price as a way to measure quality” which means people assume higher price = better quality. Sometimes a higher price has more quality but not always. Consumers generally, should educate themselves about significant purchases. Like the new Kootenays, the brand is no longer the quality it used to be and the name can no longer be associated with its former quality. People who are expecting the craftsmanship to be the same, will be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/28 "2010-02-16T21:49:58Z")
For anyone interested in what brands live up to their prices/prestige, as well as what goes into counterfeit goods, I highly recommend [Deluxe: How Luxury Lost its Luster](http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-How-Luxury-Lost-Luster/dp/1594201293). ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/29 "2010-02-17T00:02:32Z")
Hmm. When I saw this thread, my first thoughts were of counterfeit parts in industry…this has apparently become a massive problem in my line of work, since my company was treated to a presentation regarding counterfeit materials last week. One item shown during the presentation was a 30 amp breaker that had been re-labeled and repackaged for sale as a 100 amp breaker; another electrical component was covered with official-looking stickers that were full of misspellings. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/30 "2010-02-17T14:07:55Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Hmm. When I saw this thread, my first thoughts were of counterfeit parts in industry…this has apparently become a massive problem in my line of work, since my company was treated to a presentation regarding counterfeit materials last week. One item shown during the presentation was a 30 amp breaker that had been re-labeled and repackaged for sale as a 100 amp breaker; another electrical component was covered with official-looking stickers that were full of misspellings. In the aviation world, this is a real problem. Take high-strenght bolts-aviation grade bolts are made with the highest quality alloys-and certain asian counterfeiters are making tem out of melted beer cans. Something to think aboiut, when your life is at stake and a chinese-made fake bolt is supporting the landing gear (in the plane you are on).:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Recliner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a88e57/32.png) [@Recliner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recliner)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/31 "2010-02-17T22:26:36Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > It hurts the company’s image because you’re diluting the ‘exclusivity’ of their product image. If everyone sees the purser wearing a ‘Rolex’, Mr. Bigshot in firstclass probably wants to take his off and get a Patek Philippe instead. > > The Rolex brand becomes worth less to their real target market. Case in point: whenever I see someone wearing an “ultra-luxury” watch, I assume its a fake. Indeed, I’d never buy a Rolex – the proliferation of cheap knockoffs has actually made the object undesirable. Not sure what can be “done” about this, that said, but since luxury goods are all about the brand, expect them to fight hard to put down counterfeiting. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/32 "2010-02-17T22:40:45Z")
I almost never see expensive watches or other high priced stuff so it I never occurs to me they might be fake. After reading this thread I might think they are fake. ---
**Author:** ![Recliner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a88e57/32.png) [@Recliner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recliner)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/33 "2010-02-17T22:43:31Z")
As far as “made in the same factory as the real stuff!”…no. A big part of the branding and anti-counterfeiting done by luxury companies involves some serious oversight of the manufacturers making the stuff – in fact, this can become an advertising angle. Some luxury companies will brag that all merchandise with any flaws is destroyed so that it can’t find its way to the marketplace. The knockoffs I’ve seen (of watches, anyway) come in a variety of different “grades”. On the low-end, you’ll have a Rexol watch with misaligned digets and a cheap quartz movement; on the other hand, you can spend $200 on a “knockoff” that exceeds the quality of many “legit watches” (in this case, it would basically be a high-end watch made by someone other than the brand). Oh, and as for where they’re made? China, overwhelmingly. The number of factories available to produce this stuff on-the-sly is HUGE. ---
**Author:** ![ministryman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@ministryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ministryman)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/34 "2010-02-17T22:48:22Z")
Here is my take: 1. If you can’t afford it; then don’t wear an imitation. It’s an insult to those who can, and they can spot your fake, and will laugh at you behind your back (I can spot fake Louis Vuitton at 15 feet away, having p\*ssed my hard-earned dollars away on the real things during a 5-year rollercoaster ride through Hell). I will sport a Rolex when the following things have happened: My home is paid off My wife has one I have thousands of dollars to blow on a watch that keeps no better time than my Movado. 1. You are financing organized crime and/or terrorist organizations. If you can sleep knowing you’ve done that, you truky are a sick person. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/35 "2010-02-17T23:42:01Z")
I don’t really care for a fancy watch be it real or fake. I think Rolex’s look gaudy and needlessly bulky. But avoiding insult to those who can afford them? So what? It’s not my fault if they’ve invested so much of their self-worth in a little clock. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/36 "2010-02-18T15:17:17Z")
> [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](#): > > That’s patently untrue. I have a Movado. The crystal is a man made material that is practically as hard as diamond. I can wear it rock climbing and don’t have to worry about the face getting scratched against the rock face. The crystal has a lifetime guarantee because in the near-impossible event that it does manage to get a scratch, it will be replaced. I can guarantee that knock-offs aren’t using anything like that - it would be far too expensive to manufacture. The knock off faces are probably just regular glass. Sure it will fool a layman who knows what to look for… until you get your first scratch. > > My watch is waterfproof up to 200 metres underwater. Good luck getting a knock off to survive an accidental trip through the washing machine. Not in the least. There are knockoff, and there are knockoffs. What you’re thinking about are cheap $5 quartz knockoffs with a glass back bought on a beach of Thailand, but the field of watch forgery is extensive. Remember that Rolexes (for example) are most often traded with a certificate of authenticity, and when not need to be inspected by an expert watchmaker or appraiser to verify the make and model. Excluding the tourist crap, these knockoffs will encompass everything from a perfectly crafted watch made with the correct materials and paralleling the design to authentic watches doctored (by addition of diamonds and changing the design) to look like more expensive models. In any case, if you’re going to try to sell off a watch for $15,000, you’ll find somebody who can make the right crystal. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the knockup on watches is fantastic. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/37 "2010-02-18T23:39:04Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > In the aviation world, this is a real problem. Take high-strenght bolts-aviation grade bolts are made with the highest quality alloys-and certain asian counterfeiters are making tem out of melted beer cans. > Something to think aboiut, when your life is at stake and a chinese-made fake bolt is supporting the landing gear (in the plane you are on).:eek: The nuclear industry has encountered this problem too…lots of supposed Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts that were made by foreign manufacturers out of improper materials. Of course, anything that goes in a nuclear power plant requires an incredible amount of inspection and testing; the bad part is that visual ID of those head markings is part of the inspection. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/38 "2010-02-19T00:24:56Z")
> [@ministryman](#): > > Here is my take: > > 1. If you can’t afford it; then don’t wear an imitation. It’s an insult to those who can, and they can spot your fake, and will laugh at you behind your back (I can spot fake Louis Vuitton at 15 feet away, having p\*ssed my hard-earned dollars away on the real things during a 5-year rollercoaster ride through Hell). This. Frankly, I find it both pathetic and sad. If you want a luxury item save up and buy one. If you like a $30 bag/watch/sunglasses, buy those instead but strutting around with your shitty knock-off saying ‘Ha-ha - I have a Rolex and it was only $30!!’ makes you look like a tool. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/39 "2010-02-19T00:44:49Z")
I received a couple of “Rolex” watches from my mother-in-law, who is all about ‘appearances’. One was particularly nice, for $75, it was auto-winding and had a smooth sweeping second hand. Two of the ‘diamonds’ have broken loose, tend to lodge under the hands, and stop the watch. It’s not like I can take it anywhere to get it fixed. I have a Citizen that has motors for all of the hands, So it’s an analog-digital watch. (you press the mode button and the hands do a wild dance to reflect the new mode.) I paid $100 in St. Thomas for it…it would cost $350 in the US. It’s cool, but it snarfs batteries. I have a hand-wind invicta that I love because all of the guts are visible. I didn’t pay much for it, but it’s my favorite. I also have an IronMan timex. It’s for slumming. I guess I could care less. I would NEVER pay significant amounts of money for a watch. I’m much more likely to check my iPhone for the time. (Hey, that’s a $2200 watch, if you consider the two year contract!) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053/40 "2010-02-19T01:03:52Z")
Some of the stuff is okay (I had a copy watch for years) but there is a lot of garbage out there as well. It can often be distinguished because of shoddy packaging. Watches and clothes seem to be harmless enough but where you do need to exercise care is with things such as fake face lotions and such. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeit-fake-or-reproduction-goods/529053.md?page=3)