# Counterfeiting currency. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 15, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946 "2017-02-15T23:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/1 "2017-02-15T23:37:33Z")
It just occurred to me the other day. Along the lines of[this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818624) thread. If someone is going to counterfeit money why wouldn’t they simply counterfeit _older_ currency? With all the neat anti counterfeiting stuff they have in and on our US currency these days it would seem a person would only have to print money from the 80’s and they’d have a much better chance of pulling it off. I withdrew some cash from the bank the other day and one of the bills was a $100. It was printed in 1976. Still crisp and new looking but with no modern technology to stump the criminals. If I was in the business that’s the route I’d go. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/2 "2017-02-15T23:40:21Z")
Have you considered that _your_ $100 may have been counterfeit? Myself, I’d be much more skeptical about a new looking old bill than an new looking new one. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/3 "2017-02-15T23:53:52Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Have you considered that _your_ $100 may have been counterfeit? Myself, I’d be much more skeptical about a new looking old bill than an new looking new one. Sure, I got it from the bank. I doubt it was fake. It’s also pretty easy to make newly printed money look older. Something about a clothes dryer and a bunch of poker chips. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/4 "2017-02-16T00:08:03Z")
I’d wager that one of the reasons they change the way they make money is so that counterfeiters have to keep getting the new kinds of paper. Where would they get 40-year-old paper specifically made for making money? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/5 "2017-02-16T00:08:35Z")
It is a reason why sometimes coutries withdraw older currency from circulaiton. My understanding is that the USA doesn’t have a major problem with counterfit currency inside the USA, so they haven’t done so. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/6 "2017-02-16T00:19:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I’d wager that one of the reasons they change the way they make money is so that counterfeiters have to keep getting the new kinds of paper. Where would they get 40-year-old paper specifically made for making money? Where do you get\* any\* paper designed for making money? Inquiring minds want to know… ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/7 "2017-02-16T01:17:20Z")
They erase the ink from one dollar bills. Heck, I read about it in a local newspaper’s website that barely disguised the names of the solvents, it was a pretty popular purple product. They arrested a couple at a motel with stacks of ones, bottles of cleanser and a good printer. And probably an ironing board and iron. Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/8 "2017-02-16T01:41:10Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > Where do you get\* any\* paper designed for making money? Inquiring minds want to know… You wouldn’t. US Banknotes are made from cotton and linen. [http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0774850.html](http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0774850.html) ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/9 "2017-02-16T04:22:08Z")
According t this helpful report, counterfeiting US money is a major cottage industry in Peru, the world leader. [http://www.havocscope.com/making-counterfeit-money/](http://www.havocscope.com/making-counterfeit-money/) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/10 "2017-02-16T04:41:52Z")
> [@Uncommon\_Sense](#): > > It just occurred to me the other day. > Along the lines of[this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818624) thread. > If someone is going to counterfeit money why wouldn’t they simply counterfeit _older_ currency? With all the neat anti counterfeiting stuff they have in and on our US currency these days it would seem a person would only have to print money from the 80’s and they’d have a much better chance of pulling it off. I withdrew some cash from the bank the other day and one of the bills was a $100. It was printed in 1976. Still crisp and new looking but with no modern technology to stump the criminals. If I was in the business that’s the route I’d go. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Have you considered that _your_ $100 may have been counterfeit? Myself, I’d be much more skeptical about a new looking old bill than an new looking new one. I’ve been saying that (even on this board, you can find it) for years. If I have plates and paper that make passable bills dated (for example) 1998, and they come out with 2017 bills with a ton of new features, it’s not like I’m going to go toss all my equipment and supplies and source new stuff. I’m just going to keep making the old ones since they’ll keep working. ISTM, they need to phase out the old ones, even if they give a ton of notice. For example, any bills with a Series Year more then 40 years ago must be brought to bank (or some other place) to be tuned in and your regular store is allowed to deny them. > [@mixdenny](#): > > They erase the ink from one dollar bills. Heck, I read about it in a local newspaper’s website that barely disguised the names of the solvents, it was a pretty popular purple product. They arrested a couple at a motel with stacks of ones, bottles of cleanser and a good printer. And probably an ironing board and iron. > > Dennis Yes, this is common. However, they don’t use singles, they use (typically) twenties. The reason being that many cashiers hold them up to a light and check for the existence of a strip. I teach all my new cashiers not to bother with a counterfeit pen or just checking for the strip since we’ve been burned when both of those show that it’s a real bill. They must hold the bill up to the light, find the strip AND read what it says, the strip will say, in words and numbers, what denomination the bill is supposed to be. There’s a watermark on newer bills as well, but that’s difficult to see and match. Further more, and questions or problems call me, _do not_ bring the bill to the back room for me to look at. If you must come find me, leave the bill on the counter. Once the bill leaves the customer’s (and the camera’s) view, we own it. To turn that around, if I go to a store, the cashier walks into the backroom with money I handed them then comes back out and tells me it’s fake (or a 20 instead of a 50 or anything else), I’m not leaving until I get a good bill since I’m going to work on the assumption that they swapped it out when I couldn’t see them. At least that’s how I explain it to crew when I’m training them. IOW, don’t leave the customer’s view with money that’s still theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/11 "2017-02-16T05:55:00Z")
A very old bill will still be more likely to attract scrutiny because of its different appearance. Making a counterfeit note that is immediately conspicuous due to its odd design seems like a poor tactic to me. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > ISTM, they need to phase out the old ones, even if they give a ton of notice. For example, any bills with a Series Year more then 40 years ago must be brought to bank (or some other place) to be tuned in and your regular store is allowed to deny them. Regular stores already are allowed to deny them, unless it’s offered in payment of a _debt_ to the store. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/12 "2017-02-16T13:33:01Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > A very old bill will still be more likely to attract scrutiny because of its different appearance. Making a counterfeit note that is immediately conspicuous due to its odd design seems like a poor tactic to me. No, no they don’t. Go hand your 1980 dollar/10/20/50/100 bill to a 16 year old cashier and see if they even bat an eye at it. OTOH, hand them a real two dollar bill and they’ll think _that’s_ fake. But as for an old design, I’m not talking about walking into a bank with hundreds of them. > [@](#): > > Regular stores already are allowed to deny them, unless it’s offered in payment of a _debt_ to the store. Yes, I understand that. But I’ve never in my life been denied the ability to buy something in cash because the cashier didn’t like the design on the bill. This is the argument that I always get when I bring this up. But lets be honest, no cashier is going to turn down a bill because it’s ‘too old’. If you think they are just adjust my last post so instead of 1980 it’s more recent. Maybe I have plates from 2005, no one would turn down those, right? It’s kind of a silly rebuttal and doesn’t really get at the root of what I think the is the problem with adding all the new security features without taking the old bills out of circulation. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/13 "2017-02-16T14:15:43Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > According t this helpful report, counterfeiting US money is a major cottage industry in Peru, the world leader. > > [http://www.havocscope.com/making-counterfeit-money/](http://www.havocscope.com/making-counterfeit-money/) Another major source of counterfeit US currency is North Korea. The US uses color-shifting ink on some banknotes, so that the color changes from green to black as you change the angle at which you look at the note. There’s really only one company that makes this ink and it sells exclusive rights to particular colors to countries. After the US bought the rights to the green-to-black ink, the North Koreans bought the rights to the green-to-magenta ink, and magenta looks very similar to black in this application. (See [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23counterfeit.html) for more information.) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/14 "2017-02-16T15:13:17Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > You wouldn’t. US Banknotes are made from cotton and linen. Made from paper made from cotton and linen, the way fine paper was made for centuries before wood-pulp paper became far cheaper and thus more common. Currency isn’t printed on cloth. And there are commercially-available paper grades pretty much indistinguishable from currency paper - at least, older such paper - other than lacking the fine details such as the red and blue fibers. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/15 "2017-02-16T16:15:34Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Made from paper made from cotton and linen, the way fine paper was made for centuries before wood-pulp paper became far cheaper and thus more common. > > Currency isn’t printed on cloth. And there are commercially-available paper grades pretty much indistinguishable from currency paper - at least, older such paper - other than lacking the fine details such as the red and blue fibers. The problem with commercially available paper is that they’ll be caught with the $2 counterfeit pens that most cashiers have sitting next to their register. The only thing those pens do is check to see if the bill is printed on regular, starch containing, paper. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/16 "2017-02-16T17:58:19Z")
Perhaps the most famous counterfeiter was [Edward](http://www.nysun.com/on-the-town/little-old-moneymaker/9282/) [Juettner](http://www.snopes.com/business/money/mister880.asp), whose story was adapted into [a movie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_880) and [an episode of “Barney Miller”](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0519110/combined). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/17 "2017-02-16T19:19:54Z")
And probably the most famous non-counterfeiter and maker of artistic reproductions of banknotes is [J.S.G. Boggs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._S._G._Boggs). He died recently; his obituary is [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/arts/design/jsg-boggs-dead.html). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/18 "2017-02-16T20:11:46Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And probably the most famous non-counterfeiter and maker of artistic reproductions of banknotes is [J.S.G. Boggs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._S._G._Boggs). He died recently; his obituary is [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/arts/design/jsg-boggs-dead.html). Wow, thanks for posting that. I remember years ago seeing him featured on a piece on some news program (I thought, but I see that it was from [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkfxsXgQRGM) Nova from 1996), but I didn’t realize that he was still famous. I remembered recognizing elements that he had copied off other banknotes that I had in my modest collection instead of actually having invented those elements himself. I specifically remembered one of his notes featuring [a girl from a Cambodian banknote](http://www.banknotes.com/KH17.JPG), which the idiot who posted the Youtube clip is claiming to be Harriet Tubman. ([Here](http://imgur.com/a/7vObp) is a composite I made last year of a few “slice of life” scenes from banknotes in my collection.) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/19 "2017-02-16T20:14:38Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > The problem with commercially available paper is that they’ll be caught with the $2 counterfeit pens that most cashiers have sitting next to their register. The only thing those pens do is check to see if the bill is printed on regular, starch containing, paper. “Curses,” said the meat loaf when it was put back in the fridge for the third night running, “foiled again!” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2017, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946/20 "2017-02-16T20:23:01Z")
Wow, from the obituary, I see that Boggs himself was the idiot claiming that the image of a Cambodian girl copied from a real banknote was African-American Harriet Tubman. What an asshole. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/counterfeiting-currency/779946.md?page=2)