# Countries other than Russia may have offered assistance to the Trump campaign. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 19, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478 "2018-05-19T22:14:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/41 "2018-05-21T13:31:06Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > IIRC, there were numerous large anti-Trump demonstrations before the Elections, protesting his proposed immigration policies. While I don’t have hard numbers, it is doubtless that a number of people, participating in those demonstrations, were foreign nationals, residing in the US unlawfully (ie, criminals). > This was a clear and blatant interference in the US election process by foreigners and the failure to investigate it by previous administration was close, if not tantamount, to treason. So if one illegal immigrant was involved in one political protest at any time before the election, the government’s failure to launch an investigation into this constitutes treason? And this is somehow comparable to a large-scale effort coordinated and funded by a hostile government, an effort which included multiple direct meetings with senior members of one side’s campaign team and funnelling substantial sums of money to that campaign in return for a significant relaxation of sanctions against that government once the supported side came to power? ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/42 "2018-05-21T13:49:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So if one illegal immigrant was involved in one political protest at any time before the election, the government’s failure to launch an investigation into this constitutes treason? Once again, I don’t have hard numbers but looking at the scale of anti-Trump protests in states with large number of foreign nationals, residing in the US unlawfully (ie, criminals), it is doubtless that there was more than one foreign criminal participating in more than one protest, trying to illegally influence US elections. > [@Gyrate](#): > > And this is somehow comparable to a large-scale effort coordinated and funded by a hostile government, an effort which included multiple direct meetings with senior members of one side’s campaign team and funnelling substantial sums of money to that campaign in return for a significant relaxation of sanctions against that government once the supported side came to power? In order to answer your question and ascertain the foreign influence in this case, an investigation into anti-Trump protests would have to be launched, illegals aliens (ie, criminals) who participated in them, identified, interrogated, with the goal of ascertaining the extent of their illegal interference in the elections. Indictments would naturally follow. AFAIK, no such investigation occurred. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/43 "2018-05-21T14:00:49Z")
Can you cite the law that these illegal aliens would be violating? Hint: there is no law prohibiting someone who is in the US (whether legally or illegally) from participating in political activity, in general. ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/44 "2018-05-21T14:11:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you cite the law that these illegal aliens would be violating? Hint: there is no law prohibiting someone who is in the US (whether legally or illegally) from participating in political activity, in general. Entering US illegally is a felony, punishable by criminal fines and/or imprisonment (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.) Hardly anyone doubts that the criminals, who entered US illegally, participated in mass protests against immigration proposals by one of the US Presidential candidates. An investigation, to ascertain the extent of their influence on the outcome of the elections, was never launched. And it is certainly a fact that they influenced the elections. Personally, I was going to vote for Gary Johnson, but seeing CNN broadcast day after day protests, where, it is highly likely, illegal aliens (ie, criminals), participated, without any investigation in this foreign influence on the US elections, made me change my mind and I subsequently voted for Donald Trump. A number of my acquaintances had similar experience. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/45 "2018-05-21T14:18:58Z")
That’s got to be the most bizarre justification I’ve ever heard for voting for Trump. “There were _probably_ criminals in the demonstrations against him, this is foreign influence on the election\*, therefore we decided we had to support him.” \*Note: comparing a handful of illegal immigrants taking part in a mass protest to a concerted propaganda campaign by a foreign government is _phenomenally_ wrong. That’s not what we’re talking about. That’s not even in the same ballpark. It’s not even close to related. Please find out what the conversation is about before taking part in it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/46 "2018-05-21T14:22:02Z")
> [@](#): > > …and I subsequently voted for Donald Trump. A number of my acquaintances had similar experience. When Il Douche tells you that he lost the popular vote because of three to five million illegal votes, you buy that? Because you seem to be edging in that direction but are a bit coy about it… ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/47 "2018-05-21T14:25:19Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > \*Note: comparing a handful of illegal immigrants taking part in a mass protest to a concerted propaganda campaign by a foreign government is _phenomenally_ wrong. How do we know there was a “handful” of foreign criminals taking part in a mass protest? What is this “handful” anyway? 1? 10? 1000? 10000? Is there a numerical boundary below which foreign criminals should be allowed to influence US elections? How do we know their actions were not a part of concerted campaign by a foreign government? ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/48 "2018-05-21T14:28:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > When Il Douche tells you that he lost the popular vote because of three to five million illegal votes, you buy that? When a long-eared baboon told you if you liked your doctor, you could keep your doctor, you bought that? This is NOT the type of discourse I want to engage in, but I certainly can, if that’s what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/49 "2018-05-21T14:29:51Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > How do we know there was a “handful” of foreign criminals taking part in a mass protest? What is this “handful” anyway? 1? 10? 1000? 10000? Is there a numerical boundary below which foreign criminals should be allowed to influence US elections? Once again, what relevance this has to a concerted russian propaganda campaign is left to the reader’s imagination. This is off-topic. Stop threadshitting. If you want to talk about the “influence” illegal immigrants had on the election, start a thread. This is about something which, despite your claims to the contrary, has _fuck-all_ to do with individual illegal immigrants protesting or speaking out against the president. > [@](#): > > How do we know their actions were not a part of concerted campaign by a foreign government? We don’t. Generally speaking, we don’t just _assume_ that that’s the case. In the case of Russia, we demonstrated it beyond reasonable doubt. ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/50 "2018-05-21T14:34:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is off-topic. Stop threadshitting. Stop junior modding and stop it now. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > If you want to talk about the “influence” illegal immigrants had on the election, start a thread. Stop junior modding and stop it now. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > This is about something which, despite your claims to the contrary, has _fuck-all_ to do with individual illegal immigrants protesting or speaking out against the president. How do you know these were “individual” foreign criminals? How many of them there were? 1? 10? 1000? 10000? Is there a numerical boundary below which foreign criminals should be allowed to influence US elections? > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > We don’t. Generally speaking, we don’t just _assume_ that that’s the case. In the case of Russia, we demonstrated it beyond reasonable doubt. Once again, how do we know their actions were not a part of concerted campaign by a foreign government without investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/51 "2018-05-21T14:34:56Z")
So your argument is that an undetermined and largely hypothetical number of illegal immigrants may have been in the vicinity of public political protests, and therefore the government should have - in some unspecified way - conducted an investigation of enormous scope at staggering cost and potentially in violation itself of various civil rights in order to see whether \*\*any \*\*of the literally hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of people who participated in public events were illegal immigrants and to ascertain to what extent their participation had any effect whatsoever on the outcome of the election? And you voted for Trump because - _despite having no evidence whatsoever_ - you decided that it was “highly likely” that some of those people were illegal immigrants? And that all makes sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/52 "2018-05-21T14:36:09Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > When a long-eared baboon told you if you liked your doctor, you could keep your doctor, you bought that? > > This is NOT the type of discourse I want to engage in, but I certainly can, if that’s what you want. “long-eared baboon”? Holy shit, just coming right out with the black man - monkey comparisons huh? No wonder you voted for the Trumpster fire. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/53 "2018-05-21T14:37:34Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > When a long-eared baboon told you if you liked your doctor, you could keep your doctor, you bought that? > > This is NOT the type of discourse I want to engage in, but I certainly can, if that’s what you want. I cringe. ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/54 "2018-05-21T14:38:49Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I cringe. You should. Your remarks were offensive and bigoted, as I demonstrated, making equally offensive and bigoted remarks. I hope you will have the moral strength to admit you were wrong and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/55 "2018-05-21T14:42:36Z")
Il Douche is not bigoted. Baboon is. ---
**Author:** ![bslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d2c977/32.png) [@bslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bslap)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/56 "2018-05-21T14:44:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So your argument is that an undetermined and largely hypothetical number of illegal immigrants Why do you refer to them as immigrants, as opposed to more precise “foreign criminals”? > [@Gyrate](#): > > may have been in the vicinity of public political protests, No, that’s not my argument at all. My argument is that foreign criminals were not in the “vicinity”. They were in the thick of trying to influence the elections. > [@Gyrate](#): > > and therefore the government should have - in some unspecified way Well, the way was obvious: immigration officials should have gone to the protests, identified foreign criminals, who were trying to influence US elections, and arrested them. > [@Gyrate](#): > > - conducted an investigation of enormous scope at staggering cost Why would the cost of arresting foreign criminals be staggering? Is it due to sheer number of foreign criminals who tried to influence US elections in this case? > [@Gyrate](#): > > and potentially in violation itself of various civil rights What civil rights would be violated in arresting foreign criminals, who tried to influence US elections? > [@Gyrate](#): > > And that all makes sense to you? It does. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/57 "2018-05-21T14:45:02Z")
Nonsense. There is nothing offensive or bigoted about calling out the Dotard for his stupidity, or calling out Trumpelthinskin for his hair-trigger temper, or calling out il Douche for his general obnoxiousness, or for calling out Lord Orange for his poor taste in spray tans, or… well, I could go on for a while, but I think the point is made. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/58 "2018-05-21T14:45:07Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > Stop junior modding and stop it now. > Stop junior modding and stop it now. The irony… it burns… > [@bslap](#): > > Once again, how do we know their actions were not a part of concerted campaign by a foreign government without investigation? Once again, this is not how it works. If you have evidence you can present it. I mean how do we know you’re not a Russian national working for Putin? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/59 "2018-05-21T14:45:53Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > Entering US illegally is a felony, punishable by criminal fines and/or imprisonment (See 8 U.S.C. Section 1325, I.N.A. Section 275.) > Hardly anyone doubts that the criminals, who entered US illegally, participated in mass protests against immigration proposals by one of the US Presidential candidates. > An investigation, to ascertain the extent of their influence on the outcome of the elections, was never launched. > And it is certainly a fact that they influenced the elections. Personally, I was going to vote for Gary Johnson, but seeing CNN broadcast day after day protests, where, it is highly likely, illegal aliens (ie, criminals), participated, without any investigation in this foreign influence on the US elections, made me change my mind and I subsequently voted for Donald Trump. A number of my acquaintances had similar experience. You’re doing what is called moving the goalpost. Your original claim was: _IIRC, there were numerous large anti-Trump demonstrations before the Elections, protesting his proposed immigration policies. While I don’t have hard numbers, it is doubtless that a number of people, participating in those demonstrations, were foreign nationals, residing in the US unlawfully (ie, criminals). This was a clear and blatant interference in the US election process by foreigners and the failure to investigate it by previous administration was close, if not tantamount, to treason._ Trying to draw a parallel between Russian interference, where some activity was clearly illegal, and the action of illegal immigrants in those protests, which is no not illegal, is what is called a “bad analogy”. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478/60 "2018-05-21T14:47:57Z")
> [@bslap](#): > > Once again, I don’t have hard numbers That’s fortunate. If you were pulling _hard_ things out of your ass, you might hurt yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-other-than-russia-may-have-offered-assistance-to-the-trump-campaign/814478.md?page=4)