# Countries purchasing land **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 16, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750 "2019-08-16T16:03:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/1 "2019-08-16T16:03:10Z")
An item in the news right now is that Trump wants the US to purchase Greenland. There’s lots of speculation as to why, but that isn’t the reason for this thread. What I want to know, has any other country expanded its borders by purchasing land? The US has done so at least 5 times, but I can’t recall hearing about any other country doing so. Or even making an offer. Some people are going to want to know what were the 5 times. They were: [ul] [li]Louisiana Purchase[/li][li]almost the entire southwest except Texas[/li][li]Alaska[/li][li]Gadsden Purchase[/li][li]US Virgin Islands[/li][/ul] Some people may wonder about the southwest thing. Didn’t the US win that in war with Mexico? Well, it turns out that it wasn’t quite that way. Only Texas was free, the rest was bought for something like $10 million. It was a forced sale, more or less, so you could argue it either way. Also, apparently there’s been a couple other times the US made offers for Greenland. Most recently by Truman. ---
**Author:** ![FastDan1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fastdan1/32/427_2.png) [@FastDan1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FastDan1)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/2 "2019-08-16T16:06:32Z")
Jordan and Saudi Arabia made a land swap in 1965. Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/3 "2019-08-16T16:15:03Z")
[An incredible image shows how powerful countries are buying up much of the world’s land](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/05/21/rich-countries-are-buying-up-farmland-from-poorer-ones-around-the-world/) Probably not quite what the OP was referring to, but this article talks about rich countries buying arable farmland from poor countries. Apologies for the paywall. > [@](#): > > Researchers at Lund University in Sweden found that most of the world’s countries had bought or sold land internationally as of 2012 – 126 of the 195 countries recognized by the UN, according to their report. But the trade is dominated by just a few players, namely China, the U.K. and the U.S. > [@](#): > > China ranks as the most active country in the world in land trade, purchasing land from 33 countries and but selling it to only three. The U.S. is a close second, buying land from 28 countries and selling to three, following by the U.K., which bought land from 30 countries. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/4 "2019-08-16T16:45:24Z")
Definitely not what I was thinking of. I meant land purchased where the sovereignty is transfered. Those purchases are just of ownership, no different than you buying the land your house is on. The person who wrote that article did a poor job. Likely all, or at least most, of those purchases were by individuals, not the governments of those countries. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/5 "2019-08-16T17:14:47Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Likely all, or at least most, of those purchases were by individuals, not the governments of those countries. Definitely not all, and perhaps not even most; the sovereign wealth funds and state-backed enterprises in China and the Middle East are big purchasers. However, what about land swaps? For example, the [Heligoland-Zanzibar Treaty of 1890](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heligoland%E2%80%93Zanzibar_Treaty) saw Germany acquire the North Sea islands and a few bits in southwestern Africa from Britain, in exchange for giving up claims to parts of East Africa that the Brits wanted. For that matter, would you include lands that passed from one sovereign to another as part of a dowry? For example, Bombay passed from Portuguese to English control as part of the marriage treaty of Catherine of Braganza and Charles II of England; the treaty also included Tangier in Morocco, abandoned by the English before Charles’s reign was over. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/6 "2019-08-16T17:18:45Z")
Would any governmental entity have the authority to sell off sovereignty to another country? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/7 "2019-08-16T17:26:50Z")
> [@FastDan1](#): > > Jordan and Saudi Arabia made a land swap in 1965. Does that count? At one point there was “[a piece of India within a piece of Bangladesh within a piece of India within Bangladesh](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahala_Khagrabari)” with non-open borders among [other enclaves](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_enclaves), but they cleaned up most of them through land swaps. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/8 "2019-08-16T17:48:39Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Definitely not all, and perhaps not even most; the sovereign wealth funds and state-backed enterprises in China and the Middle East are big purchasers. OK, they’re not individuals, but the purchases are not a transfer of sovereignty. That was my point. > [@](#): > > However, what about land swaps? I’m interested in outright purchase that transfers sovereignty. Has any country ever done it other than the US? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would any governmental entity have the authority to sell off sovereignty to another country? Generally, only the head of government, usually with the approval of the legislature, can do it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/9 "2019-08-16T17:52:18Z")
The biggest such land transfer by purchase was the transfer of Rupert’s Land and the North-Western Territory from the Hudson Bay Company to Canada in 1870. For £300,000, the HBC surrendered the Hudson Bay watershed and the NorthWestern Territory to Canada. At the time of the transfer, the HBC was more than just the land-owner. It also had governemental powers. All of which ignored the wishes of the people who actually lived in the territory, of course. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/10 "2019-08-16T18:21:59Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The biggest such land transfer by purchase was the transfer of Rupert’s Land and the North-Western Territory from the Hudson Bay Company to Canada in 1870. For £300,000, the HBC surrendered the Hudson Bay watershed and the NorthWestern Territory to Canada. At the time of the transfer, the HBC was more than just the land-owner. It also had governemental powers. Something of a borderline case there, since both before and after the transfer, the land was still under the sovereignty of the Queen. > [@](#): > > All of which ignored the wishes of the people who actually lived in the territory, of course. Par for the course with colonial powers. I’d be surprised if anyone consulted the inhabitants of the US purchases before those sales. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/11 "2019-08-16T22:00:29Z")
At some point in the 17th c. Britain ceded something called Nutmeg Island to the Netherlands in return for an island just across the East River from Brooklyn. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/12 "2019-08-16T22:24:11Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Something of a borderline case there, since both before and after the transfer, the land was still under the sovereignty of the Queen. It’s not quite as clear-cut as that. While the Hudson’s Bay Company was founded by royal charter, the company was authorized to establish its own courts, laws, system of defense, etc., and there have certainly been arguments made that Rupert’s Land was essentially a sovereignty of its own, at least after a fashion. (see, e.g., [here](https://muse.jhu.edu/article/426907)) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/13 "2019-08-16T23:04:45Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Some people are going to want to know what were the 5 times. They were: > > [ul] > [li]Louisiana Purchase[/li][li]almost the entire southwest except Texas[/li][li]Alaska[/li][li]Gadsden Purchase[/li][li]US Virgin Islands[/li][/ul] You left some places off the list. We bought Florida from Spain in 1819. We bought the Philippines from Spain in 1898 (we got Guam and Puerto Rico in the same treaty but apparently the payment was specifically for the Philippines). And we bought the Canal Zone from Panama in 1903. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/14 "2019-08-17T00:34:34Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > It’s not quite as clear-cut as that. While the Hudson’s Bay Company was founded by royal charter, the company was authorized to establish its own courts, laws, system of defense, etc., and there have certainly been arguments made that Rupert’s Land was essentially a sovereignty of its own, at least after a fashion. (see, e.g., [here](https://muse.jhu.edu/article/426907)) But my point was that this was a sovereignty under the Crown, just as the newly formed (at the time) Canada was. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You left some places off the list. We bought Florida from Spain in 1819. We bought the Philippines from Spain in 1898 (we got Guam and Puerto Rico in the same treaty but apparently the payment was specifically for the Philippines). And we bought the Canal Zone from Panama in 1903. Not surprised at that. I listed all I could think of, but wasn’t sure that was all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/15 "2019-08-17T01:15:06Z")
What do you mean by a sovereignty under the Crown? Once the Crown has granted property rights to a subject, the Crown doesn’t have the authority to take that property away under the prerogative. The Crown granted the HBC all of the land in the Hudson Bay drainage “in free and common socage after the custom of our manor of East Greenwich”, which was archaic 17th century law speak for freehold tenure. The Crown did not have authority to take that land away and give it to Canada. The transfer only occurred by a negotiated contract of sale between Canada and the HBC, ratified by the British Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/16 "2019-08-17T01:18:20Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > But my point was that this was a sovereignty under the Crown, just as the newly formed (at the time) Canada was. The courts of Canada answered to London. The courts of the HBC did not, at least for most of the time period. Her Majesty’s government appointed the governing authorities in Canada. The HBC’s shareholders appointed the governor and officers of the company, and those officers exercised executive power in Rupert’s Land. The “under the Crown” part of their sovereignty is the part that is at least arguable. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/17 "2019-08-17T01:42:30Z")
I guess the point is that no one thought of the Rupert’s Land deal as an international transfer of land. The same would be true if two US states made a similar deal. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/18 "2019-08-17T15:03:36Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > Her Majesty’s government appointed the governing authorities in Canada. The HBC’s shareholders appointed the governor and officers of the company, and those officers exercised executive power in Rupert’s Land. The “under the Crown” part of their sovereignty is the part that is at least arguable. The only official appointed by the British government was the Governor Gerneral, who had to act on the instructions of his Canadian ministers, as Lord Dufferin found when he tried to intervene in the CPR dispute between the federal government and British Columbia. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/19 "2019-08-17T15:58:30Z")
France bought the island of Corsica from the Republic of Genoa in 1768. If they hadn’t, Napoleon Bonaparte wouldn’t have been French. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750/20 "2019-08-17T16:12:40Z")
Since we’re talking about the logistics of such a purchase, suppose the United States does purchase Greenland. There are people who live there. They own homes, businesses, and other lands. What does it mean for a country to buy another country? What happens to the property the residents already own? Do private property rights remain intact? I assume the US government would assume ownership of property already owned by the national government – buildings, parks, wilderness preserves, etc., but local governments would retain ownership of their properties. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-purchasing-land/838750.md?page=2)