# Countries with a big north-south divide **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 9, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153 "2017-11-09T22:29:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/21 "2017-11-10T12:59:34Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > By divide I mean a big difference between regions in terms of culture, society, economy. Obviously in the US there’s a reputation for the South to be considered a lot more rural and conservative than the northern states, although I was surprised that 4 states which are firmly southern rank in the [top 10 of states by GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_GDP). 0 in the top 10 for GDP per capita, and only Georgia is the “Deep South” that makes up most of the stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/22 "2017-11-10T13:24:55Z")
Just to add to this conversation, I remember reading many years ago in some mystical book that North always defeats South in war, (or civil war) the determining factor being the latitude of its capital city. This “rule” gets reversed for the southern hemisphere. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/23 "2017-11-10T15:06:14Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > One of the USA’s divisions is east-west in terms of population density and urban sprawl. The line runs north-south through the plains states. To the east it is densely populated, and to the west it is wide open. Only if you leave out California (the largest state by population) and the other Pacific Coast states. There are regional differences in population density but the pattern is not a simple division. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/24 "2017-11-10T15:06:55Z")
According to the OECD the countries with biggest regional variations in economics are Slovakia, Australia, Mexico, Italy, Greece, Canada, US, UK, Czech Republic, Hungary, Japan, and France. Slovakia is divided east west, Australia is not divided by compass point, Mexico is north/south, Italy is north/south, Greece is southeast/everywhere else, UK is north/south, US is north south, Czech Republic is capital/everywhere else, Hungary is northwest/everywhere else, Japan is central/peripheral, France is mainland/colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/25 "2017-11-10T15:46:38Z")
Doesn’t England get poorer as you go north? South Korea is basically three huge metropolitan areas, and a lot of cow towns between them, but they are spaced out so it isn’t north/south. I would imagine Venezuela’s wealth clings to its north coast, but have no first-hand knowledge of it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/26 "2017-11-10T17:41:03Z")
Lots of countries have wealth near the water because people generally want to live there. Australia is a ring with an empty center, or if you prefer a semi circle on the east, with a single spot (Perth) on the west. Hobart and Adelaide are the “poorest” cities, meaning they are still richer than most rich cities throughout the world. > [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > I would imagine Venezuela’s wealth clings to its north coast, but have no first-hand knowledge of it. He who controls the toilet paper reserves controls the wealth. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/27 "2017-11-10T19:45:43Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Doesn’t England get poorer as you go north? To a fair approximation, it gets poorer the further away from London you get, but that is most obvious going North. ‘The London/Not London’ divide is far stronger than a true ‘North/South’. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/28 "2017-11-10T20:17:28Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Doesn’t England get poorer as you go north? The English North/South dichotomy is a little more complicated. London and South East England it is wealthiest part and benefits from being a centre of the finance business. The South West is rural, dominated by tourism. The old industrial heartlands are in the Midlands and the North and these areas that once prospered on the back of industry and are now a rust belt. Brexit was a golden opportunity to kick London and the South East, with their cosmopolitan airs and fancy coffee tastes, very hard where the sun does not shine. The North is poorer, but it is not backward. The communities are stronger, the people are friendlier, they are practical and hard working. A world away from the competitive rat race that is London. Ireland is divided North/South. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/29 "2017-11-10T20:21:20Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > South Korea is basically three huge metropolitan areas, and a lot of cow towns between them, but they are spaced out so it isn’t north/south. The conventional wisdom is that ROK wealth/income is concentrated in the Seoul megalopolis and the southeast corner of the country, since the rulers tended to come from the latter when planning was done for the modern economy, and with the original idea of trying to put heavy industry as far as possible from North Korea. But if you look at this list of per capita GDP converted to $'s PPP by ‘region’ (the provinces plus the ‘special’ and ‘metropolitan’ cities) now, it doesn’t quite show that. The highest is the industrial city of Ulsan (traditional home of Hyundai’s various endeavors among others) in the southeast. But Busan and Daegu, which were big cities in the SE when Ulsan was a town, are close to last. Some of the other lowest places are off the Seoul-Busan axis as conventional wisdom would say, but South Jeolla province in the SW corner traditionally has a complex about being discriminated against economically by Seoul elites and it comes out third, higher than Seoul. Ulsan’s PPP GDP per capita is just over 3 times that of Busan. The top US state (strictly speaking, ie not counting DC) MA, has a little over twice the GDP per capita as lowest, MS. In neither of those cases though is the answer corrected for differences in purchasing power within the country. > **[List of South Korean regions by GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_regions_by_GDP)** > > This is a list of South Korean regions by GDP. All data are sourced from the latest regional statistics published by the South Korean Government, the OECD and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The South Korean won has been converted to the international dollar using the IMF's Purchasing Power Parity conversion rate. > \*Top country subdivisions by GDP > \*Top country subdivisions by GDP per capita > \*Top country metropolitan by GDP ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/30 "2017-11-10T21:06:08Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > The conventional wisdom is that ROK wealth/income is concentrated in the Seoul megalopolis and the southeast corner of the country, since the rulers tended to come from the latter when planning was done for the modern economy, and with the original idea of trying to put heavy industry as far as possible from North Korea. > > But if you look at this list of per capita GDP converted to $'s PPP by ‘region’ (the provinces plus the ‘special’ and ‘metropolitan’ cities) now, it doesn’t quite show that. The highest is the industrial city of Ulsan (traditional home of Hyundai’s various endeavors among others) in the southeast. But Busan and Daegu, which were big cities in the SE when Ulsan was a town, are close to last. Some of the other lowest places are off the Seoul-Busan axis as conventional wisdom would say, but South Jeolla province in the SW corner traditionally has a complex about being discriminated against economically by Seoul elites and it comes out third, higher than Seoul. > > Ulsan’s PPP GDP per capita is just over 3 times that of Busan. The top US state (strictly speaking, ie not counting DC) MA, has a little over twice the GDP per capita as lowest, MS. In neither of those cases though is the answer corrected for differences in purchasing power within the country. > > [List of South Korean regions by GDP - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_regions_by_GDP) The night satellite photo shows a stark difference between North and South. Seoul and Incheon, and then Daegu, Ulsan and Busan are the heavy metropolitan areas. South is mostly lit, while North is mostly dark. [https://www.google.com/search?q=earth+lights+big+korea&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJuMGT87TXAhXi24MKHdpSB0IQ\_AUIEigB&biw=1024&bih=666#imgrc=j6phPm1tjQ4P9M:](https://www.google.com/search?q=earth+lights+big+korea&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJuMGT87TXAhXi24MKHdpSB0IQ_AUIEigB&biw=1024&bih=666#imgrc=j6phPm1tjQ4P9M:) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/31 "2017-11-10T22:29:52Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > One of the USA’s divisions is east-west in terms of population density and urban sprawl. The line runs north-south through the plains states. To the east it is densely populated, and to the west it is wide open. > > Easier to see in this satellite image of the night’s lights: [https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/images/712129main\_8247975848\_88635d38a1\_o.jpg](https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/images/712129main_8247975848_88635d38a1_o.jpg) That division really has to do with the availability of water in those areas. The western half has much less rainfall & available water than the East. (California, Oregon, & Washington states are an exception, because they get plenty of rainfall until the Rocky Mountains drain it all, leaving the Great Plains comparatively parched.) ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2017, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/32 "2017-11-10T23:20:52Z")
Marcel Pagnol observed that several European countries have a cultural and economic north-south divide, where the northerners are stereotypically industrious and uptight, while the southerners are more easygoing and expressive. What he found remarkable is that even though Belgium’s south is adjacent to France’s north, while France’s south is adjacent to Italy’s north, the differences pertain within each of those countries. Unfortunately I can’t remember which book that was. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/33 "2017-11-11T00:56:53Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > Brexit was a golden opportunity to kick London and the South East, with their cosmopolitan airs and fancy coffee tastes, very hard where the sun does not shine. > > The North is poorer, but it is not backward. The communities are stronger, the people are friendlier, they are practical and hard working. A world away from the competitive rat race that is London. I was in northern England six months before Brexit and then again last month, and so I had the chance to talk to people before it happened and then afterwards. (Yorkshire, where I was, went strongly for leaving, IIRC). I remember that I heard people say semi-seriously back in January 2016, “if the north could vote to secede from London, they would.” For what it’s worth, I much prefer the north to the south of England as well. And I don’t think comparisons to the US South are very accurate (a comparison to the economically depressed parts of Ohio or Michigan would probably be closer to the truth). The Southern US isn’t primarily distinguished by being poor, it’s distinguished by the cultural legacy of slavery, the plantation culture, the civil war, and all that followed (as well as to some extent Scotch-Irish heritage). ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/34 "2017-11-11T03:07:18Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > The night satellite photo shows a stark difference between North and South. Seoul and Incheon, and then Daegu, Ulsan and Busan are the heavy metropolitan areas. South is mostly lit, while North is mostly dark. OP specifically ruled out North and South Korea as being one country with a ‘north south divide’, rather than two countries. I was going with that, and hence discussing differences _within_ South Korea, according to the data I cited, not between North and South Korea. And while big difference in amount of light in night sat photo’s is often cited as dramatic evidence of the gigantic ROK/DPRK economic difference, it’s not that accurate on the level of relatively smaller differences within a single rich country like the ROK. Daegu and Busan are the 2nd and 4th largest cities but near the bottom in per capita GDP among the 16 ROK subdivisions consisting of Seoul (the ‘special city’), the 6 metropolitan cities and the 9 provinces. Ulsan is the smallest of the metropolitan cities (also smaller than Suwon which isn’t a metropolitan city) but first in GDP per capita by a considerable margin. And among the 7 entities above the ROK national average 5 are provinces, with Changwon the only top 10 city in any of them. IOW GDP _per capita_ within the ROK isn’t as a rule higher in the biggest cities throwing off the most light at night. 🙂 Again see link: > **[List of South Korean regions by GDP](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Korean_regions_by_GDP)** > > This is a list of South Korean regions by GDP. All data are sourced from the latest regional statistics published by the South Korean Government, the OECD and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). The South Korean won has been converted to the international dollar using the IMF's Purchasing Power Parity conversion rate. > \*Top country subdivisions by GDP > \*Top country subdivisions by GDP per capita > \*Top country metropolitan by GDP ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/35 "2017-11-11T03:16:29Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > According to the OECD the countries with biggest regional variations in economics are Slovakia, Australia, Mexico, Italy, Greece, Canada, US, UK, Czech Republic, Hungary, Japan, and France. > Slovakia is divided east west, Australia is not divided by compass point, Mexico is north/south, Italy is north/south, Greece is southeast/everywhere else, UK is north/south, US is north south, Czech Republic is capital/everywhere else, Hungary is northwest/everywhere else, Japan is central/peripheral, France is mainland/colonies. That’s really surprising to me, because at the level of income inequality between _individuals_, the Czech Republic is the second lowest in the world, and Hungary and Slovakia aren’t that far behind. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/36 "2017-11-11T03:17:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > There’s nothing like this in South Africa - the richest places are widely scattered, as are the poorest places. There is one clear E-W divide, though - [see if you can spot it on this map](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:South_Africa_2011_dominant_population_group_map.svg). Oh, look, [there it is again](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_South_Africa#/media/File:South_Africa_2011_West_Germanic_speakers_proportion_map.svg). I couldn’t tell from the confusing color scheme, but are there any areas of South Africa where Asians/Indians are a plurality? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/37 "2017-11-11T05:16:02Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > And in Florida, the part of it that is the south in culture is in the north. The joke is that in Florida the further north you go, the further south you get. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/38 "2017-11-11T05:25:49Z")
In Vatican City there are stark economic, cultural, and demographic differences between the South and the North. The South has the urbanization: St. Peter’s Basilica, the papal residence, the administrative offices, and the transportation hub (the train station and heliport). The North, while underdeveloped economically, is richer culturally, with its many museums, gardens, libraries, and academy of sciences, plus agriculturally (the greenhouses are in the North; the kitchen garden is in the middle). The North has a drugstore and a supermarket, but their modest business cannot compete with the economic powerhouse that is the St. Peter’s gift shop, raking in the lucrative tourist trade. The vast majority of the population lives and works in the South. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/39 "2017-11-11T05:53:56Z")
The north of Griffith Park park is dominated by skunks and bobcats, while you’ll find a preponderance of deer and coyotes in the south. Seriously–most countries are not homogeneous, and if you scrounge around it doesn’t take much find some kind of divide just about everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2017, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153/40 "2017-11-11T06:13:05Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > The North is poorer, but it is not backward. The communities are stronger, the people are friendlier, they are practical and hard working. A world away from the competitive rat race that is London. Yeah, I hear Manchester was the inspiration for Mayberry, where the Buckfast flows like water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/countries-with-a-big-north-south-divide/801153.md?page=3)