# Country names, their origins, and a minor UN question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366 "2003-07-28T03:27:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2003, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/21 "2003-08-03T13:19:24Z")
So, what about the tone languages? Y’all going to try pronouncing the names of places with the correct tones? ---
**Author:** ![MRYuhs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@MRYuhs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MRYuhs)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/22 "2011-10-28T19:53:58Z")
When Japan was first discovered by the English, it was done with Chinese navigators on board. The Chinese call the country Xiapon which sounds like “Japan” in English. Hence the name. The true name of the country is Nihon, or Nippon. Both are correct. One is merely a different dialect from the kansai dialect. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/23 "2011-10-28T20:05:03Z")
Oddly, the name the undead have for themselves is “RrrrrRrrrrrGrhhhhh”. They have no idea where we’re getting “Zombie” from. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/24 "2011-10-28T20:50:42Z")
> [@MRYuhs](#): > > When Japan was first discovered by the English, it was done with Chinese navigators on board. The Chinese call the country Xiapon which sounds like “Japan” in English. Hence the name. The true name of the country is Nihon, or Nippon. Both are correct. One is merely a different dialect from the kansai dialect. Cute story, but wrong. Japan was known to the English (and other Europeans) centuries before any of them ever sailed to it. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/25 "2011-10-28T21:06:39Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > 'Fraid not. > > Japan (Nihon) = .jp > Russia (Rassiya) = .ru > Thailand (Not sure, but probably not Thailand) = .th > China (?) = .cn > > English prevails. However, Spain (Espana) = .es Burma (Myanmar) = .mm Chad (Tchad) = .td Morocco (Maghrib?) = .ma and, interestingly enough, Switzerland (Confoederatio Helvetica) = .ch, which comes from Latin, which I do not believe is a national or official language of the country. South Africa (Zuid Afrika) = .za , from Dutch, which is not an official language of the country. > **[Country code top-level domain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_code_top-level_domain)** > > A country code top-level domain (ccTLD) is an Internet top-level domain generally used or reserved for a country, sovereign state, or dependent territory identified with a country code. All ASCII ccTLD identifiers are two letters long, and all two-letter top-level domains are ccTLDs. > In 2018, the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) began implementing internationalized country code top-level domains, consisting of language-native characters when displayed in an end-user application. Creati... ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/26 "2011-10-28T21:42:22Z")
> [@MRYuhs](#): > > The true name of the country is Nihon, or Nippon. Both are correct. One is merely a different dialect from the kansai dialect. They are not different dialects. The two pronunciations are used by speakers of kansai dialect and kantou dialect. The use varies with context. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/27 "2011-10-28T21:50:01Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > South Africa (Zuid Afrika) = .za , from Dutch, which is not an official language of the country. When the “ZA” abbreviation was first assigned to South Africa in 1936 - as an international vehicle registration code, not a TLD of course - Dutch was still an official language. (And Afrikaans spelling was not completely formalised, so that even in Afrikaans it might have been spelled with a Z.) ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/28 "2011-10-28T21:56:14Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > South Africa (Zuid Afrika) = .za , from Dutch, which is not an official language of the country. More likely from Afrikaans, which derives from Dutch, and _is_ an official language of the country (one of eleven). I am not exactly sure when these national domains were assigned, but probably it was when Afrikaans speakers were still the ruling elite (it is still the most widely spoken language amongst South African whites). ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/29 "2011-10-29T11:10:22Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > More likely from Afrikaans, which derives from Dutch, and _is_ an official language of the country (one of eleven). I am not exactly sure when these national domains were assigned, but probably it was when Afrikaans speakers were still the ruling elite (it is still the most widely spoken language amongst South African whites). Afrikaans spells it “Suid-Afrika”. (It is possible, though, that in 1936 when the code was first used Afrikaans spelling was not completely standardised.) ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/30 "2011-10-29T12:16:46Z")
A couple of points: **Cote d’Ivoire** (preferably with circumflex over the first o) is the official name of the country in {their official language? / one of their official languages?}, French, which is the standard lingua franca and official government-use language between their ethnic groups. They’ve requested it be used rather than English, German, etc. translations of its meaning. Kind of like we don’t translate Republica de Argentina to “Silvery Republic.” 🙂 (Note that it’s “Iv **oir** e”, not Iv **ori** e", as misued in one of the linked threads. The adjective form in English (and I believe French) is “cotedivoirian”.) > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Switzerland (Confoederatio Helvetica) = .ch, which comes from Latin, which I do not believe is a national or official language of the country. Yes, Latin is not an official or national language there, but it was a language in common knowledge until very recently. And the Latin designation, chosen specifically for its neutrality, **is** the official name, which avoids giving preference to any of the three official-language forms: Schwyz, Suisse, or Svissera. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/31 "2011-10-29T16:00:30Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > The adjective form in English (and I believe French) is “cotedivoirian”.) In French, it’s simply “ivoirien”. Would “ivoirian” be correct in English? > [@](#): > > Yes, Latin is not an official or national language there, but it was a language in common knowledge until very recently. And the Latin designation, chosen specifically for its neutrality, **is** the official name, which avoids giving preference to any of the three official-language forms: Schwyz, Suisse, or Svissera. Actually “Schweiz” in German and “Svizzera” in Italian. The word “Schweiz” does derive from “Schwyz”, which is a city and (founding) canton in Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/32 "2011-10-29T20:46:47Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > In French, it’s simply “ivoirien”. Would “ivoirian” be correct in English? Yes. Ivoirian (I usually pronounce eye-vwor\*-ee-in.) - Pronounced like the word _war_ with a _v_ in front of it. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/33 "2011-10-29T22:42:33Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > Switzerland (Confoederatio Helvetica) = .ch, which comes from Latin, which I do not believe is a national or official language of the country. It’s not one of the four languages, but it is an bias-free choice so they don’t have to choose between Schweiz, Suisse, Svizzera, or Svizra (nobody expects the Romansh!). The only Swiss citizens who might be expected to speak Latin are the Swiss Guards, living in the Vatican and all. Add to the list of countries with official foreign names in English is “the Democratic Republic of Timor-Leste,” better known as East Timor. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/34 "2011-10-31T11:26:38Z")
And, in case you wonder, “sa” is the code for Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![EKDS5k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c5a1d2/32.png) [@EKDS5k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EKDS5k)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/35 "2011-10-31T11:52:26Z")
> [@punkkid](#): > > Actually it’s more complicated than that. The Japanese don’t have an ‘h’. Their ‘h’ is slightly labialized, so it is something between an ‘f’ and an ‘h.’ In the days of exploration, ‘pp’ was the accepted way of pronouncing this translingually, but now ‘h’ is more accepted. > > But that’s a side issue… I know that this is like 8 years old, but where does this come from? There is definitely an ‘h’ sound in Japanese, and there is a difference in pronunciation between Nihon and Nippon. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/36 "2011-10-31T13:02:31Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > 'Fraid not. > > Japan (Nihon) = .jp > Russia (Rassiya) = .ru > Thailand (Not sure, but probably not Thailand) = .th > China (?) = .cn > > English prevails. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > However, > > Spain (Espana) = .es > Burma (Myanmar) = .mm > Chad (Tchad) = .td > Morocco (Maghrib?) = .ma And actually, the list from Jayrot could also be from French (Japan, Rusia, Thailand, China if I’m not mistaken). Given how recently French was the prevailing trade language, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case. Anyway, I imagine it was a matter of what each country wanted to have as their symbol and whether it was already “taken”, and those cited begin by not using the Latin alphabet (us “our country’s name begins with an E, damnit, not an S” being the exception). ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/37 "2011-10-31T13:36:39Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And actually, the list from Jayrot could also be from French (Japan, Rusia, Thailand, China if I’m not mistaken). In French? It’d be Japon, Russie, Thaïlande and Chine. (But yes, all those abbreviations work in French as well.) ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/38 "2011-10-31T13:53:11Z")
Those “abbreviations” are the [ISO 3166-1](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1) [country codes](http://www.iso.org/iso/iso-3166-1_decoding_table). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/39 "2011-10-31T14:24:17Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Thailand (Not sure, but probably not Thailand) = .th Prathet Thai > [@](#): > > China (?) = .cn Chung-Kuo or Zhongguo ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366/40 "2011-10-31T18:03:54Z")
> [@EKDS5k](#): > > I know that this is like 8 years old, but where does this come from? There is definitely an ‘h’ sound in Japanese, and there is a difference in pronunciation between Nihon and Nippon. I am no Japanese expert, but the “h” syllable line goes: “ha hi fu he ho” in modern Romanization systems like Hepburn. The “fu” is a sound that is between English “fu” and “hu,” sort of an aspirated(?) “f” sound. I have never heard that the same occurs in ha, hi, he, and ho, so my puzzlement matches yours, although maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/country-names-their-origins-and-a-minor-un-question/191366.md?page=3)