# Couple of West Wing questions (possible spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 11, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668 "2004-05-11T18:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/1 "2004-05-11T18:55:43Z")
I’ve been trying to catch up by watching reruns on Bravo. 1. Whatever happened to Danny, the news guy who was hot for CJ? He seems to have just disappeared between seasons. Is there any story line about what happened to him? 2. Whatever happened with the Vice-President. Last I saw, Hoynes resigned. The Speaker Pro-tem took over when Bartlet enacted his 25th amendment “right”. Why did Bartlet do that? Anyway, it seems that now there is a VP on prime time. Who is he? And when was he appointed? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/2 "2004-05-11T19:26:20Z")
I can answer #2 for you. After Zoey was kidnapped, the President realized he wasn’t in any sort of emotional shape to govern and didn’t want to be put in the situation of having to choose between his daughter’s safety and the good of the country, so, in accordance with the 25th amendment, he declared himself temporarly unfit to govern, until the crisis was resolved. > [@](#): > > Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President Because Hoynes had resigned and a new Veep hadn’t been picked yet, the Speaker became acting president. After Zoey was rescued and the President resumed his duties, the White House then went about picking a new Vice President. However, according to the 25th Amendment, the new Vice President needs to be confirmed by Congress: > [@](#): > > Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress. The new Speaker wouldn’t sign off on the President’s choice. Whoever the President picked as Vice President would have a leg up in getting the Democratic nomination after Bartlett’s term was over, and the Speaker wanted to make sure no strong Democrats would get picked. So, he pretty much forced the President to pick “Bingo Bob”…Colorado Democratic Congressman Robert Russell, who’s incompetent, corrupt, and a tool of the Colorado mining industry. (While Hoynes was in bed with the Texas oil industry, at least he was intelligent and an effective leader). Will then went on to become Russell’s Communication Director, which Toby still hasn’t forgiven him for. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/3 "2004-05-11T21:41:45Z")
Thanks, Captain. When you say “new Speaker”, do you mean the guy who became acting President? Or did the acting President lose his job as Speaker permanently by taking the presidential oath? (Does anyone know #1?) ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/4 "2004-05-11T22:08:03Z")
> [@Libertarian](#): > > I’ve been trying to catch up by watching reruns on Bravo. > > 1. Whatever happened to Danny, the news guy who was hot for CJ? He seems to have just disappeared between seasons. Is there any story line about what happened to him? I don’t know any story line on where he’s off to. I do seem to recall (vaguely) that their developing romance was making CJ uncomfortable and she told him they had to cool it. But I’ve not watched these all in order so the timing could be off. He was gone for a while once before and then reappeared from another country and wound up with a story that was key to the plot at the time (maybe re the assassination/Kumari storyline?) Anyway, net is that they tend to come up with the rationale for someone missing mainly after the fact. There is an extensive weekly recap at Television without Pity if you want to read up on the any plot threads and get caught up. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/5 "2004-05-11T22:09:14Z")
No, John Goodman played the old Speaker, but he resigned as Speaker to become acting president, and the new Speaker is a guy named Congressman Haffley. No idea what happened to Danny. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/6 "2004-05-11T23:59:06Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > He was gone for a while once before and then reappeared from another country and wound up with a story that was key to the plot at the time (maybe re the assassination/Kumari storyline?) Anyway, net is that they tend to come up with the rationale for someone missing mainly after the fact. Yep, Danny reappeared on the trail of the assassination story [last season](http://westwing.bewarne.com/fourth/411holynite.html). I don’t know that his previous (or current, for that matter) absence was ever explained. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/7 "2004-05-12T00:49:44Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > No, John Goodman played the old Speaker, but he resigned as Speaker to become acting president, Is that a consitutional requirement? Under such circumstances ([this article](http://hnn.us/articles/812.html) describes various Presidents undergoing surgery and putting the Veep in charge while the anesthesia was in effect, though the 25th was rarely formally invoked) the Veep or Speaker (or whoever was in the line of succession) is only temporarily taking on the “powers and duties … as Acting President.” The Speaker has never been involved, but if it happened, why would he have to resign from the House for a temporary posting as Acting President? Wouldn’t he more likely nominate a temporary Speaker to replace him (and since the Speaker is of the majority party, I doubt the House would object) and return to his post after the Pres signs the second letter, re-assuming his duties? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/8 "2004-05-12T01:27:59Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Is that a consitutional requirement? It’s a statutory one. According to the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 (3 USC 19)… > [@](#): > > if, by reason of death, resignation, removal from office, inability, or failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President. and further: > [@](#): > > if his [the acting president’s] discharge of the powers and duties of the office is founded in whole or in part on the inability of the President or Vice President, then he shall act only until the removal of the disability of one of such individuals. What effect does the 25th amendment have on these parts of the act? I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone does, it never having come up. However, that title has been amended since the 25th amendment was ratified, and the wording didn’t change. (There’s currently (I think) a bill in Congress to make sure cabinet members don’t lose their positions if they’re forced to become acting president due to the disability of the Pres. and VP, but it doesn’t apply to the Speaker.) ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/9 "2004-05-12T01:30:52Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Is that a consitutional requirement? Under such circumstances ([this article](http://hnn.us/articles/812.html) describes various Presidents undergoing surgery and putting the Veep in charge while the anesthesia was in effect, though the 25th was rarely formally invoked) the Veep or Speaker (or whoever was in the line of succession) is only temporarily taking on the “powers and duties … as Acting President.” The Speaker has never been involved, but if it happened, why would he have to resign from the House for a temporary posting as Acting President? Wouldn’t he more likely nominate a temporary Speaker to replace him (and since the Speaker is of the majority party, I doubt the House would object) and return to his post after the Pres signs the second letter, re-assuming his duties? In order to maintain the separation of branches of the government, he can’t work for two branches. Therefore, in order to be part of the executive branch (The President) he had to resign from the legislative branch (Congress). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/10 "2004-05-12T02:14:27Z")
Hmmm, sounds like Clinton could have gotten rid of Gingrich just by asking Gore to take a leave of absence, then invoking the 25th for about 15 minutes on a Sunday when Congress is out of session (and Gingrich can’t accomplish anything significant). I’m sure this wouldn’t work, but it does strike as a possible abuse of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/11 "2004-05-12T03:17:37Z")
Except Gingrich would probably have refused, under those circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/12 "2004-05-12T03:33:08Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Except Gingrich would probably have refused, under those circumstances. _Can_ someone in the line of succession refuse? The interesting thing about these scenarios is that they pretty much never get tested, and when they do, they become the subject of trivia questions (i.e. the guy who slept through his Presidency). ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/13 "2004-05-12T03:46:50Z")
Urban legend. The swearing-in ceremony is now held to be legally meaningless, so the fact that David Rice Atchison was president pro tempore of the Senate when Zachary Taylor held up his inauguration ceremony until Monday is the only fact that holds up. He was never president, even for a day. [Snopes’ take on it](http://www.snopes.com/history/american/atchison.htm). Sorry, but this false piece of “history” is one of my pet peeves. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/14 "2004-05-12T03:51:09Z")
Well, the law says that he becomes Pres. upon his resignation as speaker and congressman, so if he refused to do that, I don’t think anybody could make him. They’d just have to hunt down Strom and offer it to him. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/15 "2004-05-12T04:03:30Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > Urban legend. The swearing-in ceremony is now held to be legally meaningless, so the fact that David Rice Atchison was president pro tempore of the Senate when Zachary Taylor held up his inauguration ceremony until Monday is the only fact that holds up. Not entirely meaningless. The act says: > [@](#): > > The taking of the oath of office by an individual specified in the list in paragraph (1) of this subsection [a cabinet officer] shall be held to constitute his resignation from the office by virtue of the holding of which he qualifies to act as President. So, for a cabinet officer, taking the oath serves as his resignation. Of course, that wouldn’t have applied to Atchison, and that law didn’t exist in 1849, at any rate. And, this is a different hypothetical scenario, where the president didn’t just not take the oath of office, but actually, under the 25th Amendment, temporarily relinquished the office. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/16 "2004-05-12T04:33:57Z")
Two different oaths. My understanding is that Johnson became president immediately upon the death of Kennedy. That he had a quick ceremony an hour later is considered by scholars to have been a good public gesture, but legally unnecessary. Similarly, Ford became president as soon as Nixon resigned. This is backed up by (a) (2) of the Presidential Succession Act you quoted earlier, in which the Speaker instantly becomes president upon his resignation. No oath is mentioned. Same with the President Pro Tempore. I can’t site expertise as to why Cabinet members are treated differently, but I presume it has something to do with their not having been elected in the first place. Modern theory has it that there can be no interregnum, no time in which no one is president. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/17 "2004-05-12T04:37:37Z")
Well, when I said “these scenarios”, I meant oddball presidential scenarios generally, not just relating to the 25th. I recall a dopey political novel written in the early sixties that had as its premise the sudden deaths of the President and Speaker in a building collapse, at a time when the Vice-Presidency was vacant, causing the office to fall to the Preisdent Pro Tem who was - gasp! - _a black man!_ The title escapes me. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/18 "2004-05-12T06:45:13Z")
That was _The Man_ by Irving Wallace. The name of the first black President was Douglas Dilman. (I read this book thirty years ago. Why on Earth do these things stick in my brain?) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/19 "2004-05-12T06:48:33Z")
Speaking of disappearances. I missed a lot of the second season episodes. Did they ever explain what happened to Mandy Hampton or did she just stop appearing? ---
**Author:** ![vertizontal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ad7895/32.png) [@vertizontal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vertizontal)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668/20 "2004-05-12T14:03:25Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > That was _The Man_ by Irving Wallace. The name of the first black President was Douglas Dilman. (I read this book thirty years ago. Why on Earth do these things stick in my brain?) And this was made into a movie, starring James Earl Jones. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-of-west-wing-questions-possible-spoilers/244668.md?page=2)