# Couple refuse to sign marriage license over "gender neutral" terms **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941 "2008-09-17T02:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/21 "2008-09-17T15:28:36Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Sounds fair enough to me. Heck, there could be dozens of legally sanctioned terms if the government so chose: > > “Screaming Girly-girl haidresser Queen” and “Leather-clad Bikerdaddy” > > or > > “Mimsy, apron-wearing Little Woman” and “Stern Victorian Husband” > > I agree the “Party A” and “Party B” bit is very impersonal. I support gay marriage/union, but I can see where this is actually almost bad PR for it, in a way. > Shit, even the personals ads online have “I am a [select] looking for a [select].” Just have: Man/Woman, Man/Man, Woman/Woman". Can’t be that difficult. Can ex-wives choose - like “the Bastard” and “the Hussy?” Maybe the wedding guests can vote - you can get “Irresponsible” and “Stupid” or “Unfaithful” and “Blind” “Rich One” and “Golddigger.” And occationally “Madly in Love” and “Madly in Love, too.” ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/22 "2008-09-17T15:29:15Z")
> [@lawoot](#): > > “I Knew Party B When s/he Used to Rock and Roll” Paaar-TAY A and Paaaaar-TAY B. Reminds me a bit of that overused gag when filling out forms in the 70s: MARITAL STATUS: _Swingle_ ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/23 "2008-09-17T15:39:07Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > The answer is simple. Change the form to read ‘Applicant’ and ‘Joint Applicant’ like it does in Ontario. 🙂 In Ontario, folks who don’t want to have to use the gub’mints “Applicant/Joint Applicant” marriage license can get married without one by having banns published at their places or worship and mentioned in the wedding service. Atheists would be SOL if they want to use bride/groom rather than applicant/joint applicant. In Ontario the wedding service (religious or not) must include the affirmation of each taking the other as their lawful wedded husband/wife, or partner, or spouse, so there again folks with a traditional preference are not forced into gender neutral language. Since there is a lot of legislation and there are a lot of forms floating about that deal with family law in Ontario, I wouldn’t be surprised if there are still a few examples of non-gender neutral language. For example, the form used to request a marraige certificate still uses bride/groom. I expect that over time these remnants will be amended. Since there are no standard forms for domestic contracts (cohabitation agreements, marriage contracts, and separation agreements) in Ontario, the parties are free to use whatever terminology they prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/24 "2008-09-17T15:40:11Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > I kind of like “Baby Momma” and “Baby Daddy” myself. And what about us who don’t want to have kids? Huh?? Huh?? What about _our_ rights??!!!ONE!! Help, help, I’m being oppressed! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/25 "2008-09-17T15:52:38Z")
Sugar Mama/Daddy? What do you want to bet it’s a publicity stunt for the anti-gay marriage crowd? (Oh, is anyone else getting the ads for removing cat pee odors?) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/26 "2008-09-17T16:02:06Z")
I think I’m gonna start a thread in CS for gender neutral love songs. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/27 "2008-09-17T16:15:12Z")
**Party A** - Band name! I could see the same-sex couples arguing over who gets to be Party A. Party A seems somehow superior to Party B. What a stupid world it is sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/28 "2008-09-17T16:40:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Personally, I think one or both of them got cold feed and are saving face. If they could fill out a more personal form, then they could cook hot meals for each other. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/29 "2008-09-17T16:49:02Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > **Party A** - Band name! > > I could see the same-sex couples arguing over who gets to be Party A. Party A seems somehow superior to Party B. > > What a stupid world it is sometimes. Change it to Party A and Party 1. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/30 "2008-09-17T16:50:16Z")
Do they still have the option of entering into a Civil Union? If so, what’s the wording on that? 'cause, that’d be funny… ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/31 "2008-09-17T16:52:27Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Do they still have the option of entering into a Civil Union? If so, what’s the wording on that? > > 'cause, that’d be funny… We don’t have civil unions, we have domestic partnerships. Domestic Partnerships in CA are limited to same-sex couples or opposite sex couples where at least one of the parties is age 62 or over. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/32 "2008-09-17T17:58:46Z")
Damn, I was hoping they would have “spouse” and “spouse” on the forms. It seems more romantic to me than “party A” and “party B.” (why I think the government’s form should be romantic, I haven’t a clue) But I guess you’re not actually a spouse till you’re married, not while you are in the act of marrying. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/33 "2008-09-17T18:25:42Z")
“Honeybunny _Left_” and “Honeybunny _Right._” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/34 "2008-09-17T18:32:39Z")
Dr. Seuss had it right: “Thing One and Thing Two” ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/35 "2008-09-17T18:33:06Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > Domestic Partnerships in CA are limited to same-sex couples or opposite sex couples where at least one of the parties is age 62 or over. Genuinely curious, what’s the logic behind this? Why the age limit? And how exactly is a het “marriage” different from a het “domestic partnership”? ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/36 "2008-09-17T18:34:26Z")
I think it’s despicable how the conservatives in charge completely disregard Party C. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/37 "2008-09-17T18:38:20Z")
There ain’t no Sanity Clause! ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/38 "2008-09-17T18:41:39Z")
> [@Nanoda](#): > > I think it’s despicable how the conservatives in charge completely disregard Party C. Yeah! We’ll have to change it to Party A, Party 1, and Party I. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/39 "2008-09-17T18:41:56Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Genuinely curious, what’s the logic behind this? Why the age limit? And how exactly is a het “marriage” different from a het “domestic partnership”? Domestic Partnership was designed as our ‘alternative’ for gay couples. Why they included the bit about senior het’s I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941/40 "2008-09-17T18:43:02Z")
> [@Telperien](#): > > Damn, I was hoping they would have “spouse” and “spouse” on the forms. It seems more romantic to me than “party A” and “party B.” (why I think the government’s form should be romantic, I haven’t a clue) But I guess you’re not actually a spouse till you’re married, not while you are in the act of marrying. I’m sure there are legal reasons why they can’t have give the two parties the exact same title, though I’m equally sure Spouse 1 and Spouse 2 would work. But then, someone would complain about being the _2nd_ spouse, and therefor of secondary importance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-refuse-to-sign-marriage-license-over-gender-neutral-terms/463941.md?page=3)