# Couple to raise their baby without assigning it a gender **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 1, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611 "2009-07-01T19:29:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/1 "2009-07-01T19:29:43Z")
> **[Swedish politician moonlights as a porn star - Salon.com](https://www.salon.com/2000/03/22/sweden/)** > > The Leftist Party may oust him for his controversial extracurricular activities. From Salon: > [@](#): > > A Swedish couple believe so strongly that gender is a social construction that they do not reveal whether their 2.5-year-old is a boy or a girl. > > Only those who have changed the toddler’s diapers know if “Pop,” which is not the child’s real name, is male or female. “We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mold from the outset,” the tot’s 24-year-old mother told the newspaper Svenska Dagbladet. “It’s cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.” It seems like an odd experiment. More power to them if it works. I’m just not sure how long it’ll work, though. At some point, the kid will probably realize what genitals signify (girls have vulvas, boys have penises)–will this neutral talk really work then? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/2 "2009-07-01T19:34:21Z")
I’m guessing it will only work until they go to school. Maybe with home schooling and being very selective about friends they might make it until puberty hits. They also are going to have to keep their kid from using public restrooms. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/3 "2009-07-01T19:35:46Z")
I think it’s absurd. Gender roles play an obvious and critical role in our development as human beings. Developmentally speaking, the parents are playing around with blending gender identity, another crucial stage in human development. I can see it now - Swedish Couple instructs their child’s teachers not to refer to it as a male or female but by it’s name…Pat. These people need a better hobby than playing around with the emotional development of their child. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/4 "2009-07-01T19:35:59Z")
**Oredigger77** beat me to it. I’m wondering what will happen when the child gets to school and has to pick a restroom, or later on, a gym locker room. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/5 "2009-07-01T19:38:06Z")
They do say they’ll reveal the child’s gender when the time come. Presumably before pre-school or kindergarten or whatever. And when the child gets older, I wonder how they’ll feel about it. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/6 "2009-07-01T19:52:45Z")
Is this for the kid or for society? I don’t see how it helps either. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/7 "2009-07-01T20:04:05Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Is this for the kid or for society? I don’t see how it helps either. Maybe, maybe not. I certainly don’t see how it _hurts_ anything, though. I am not sure it will work the way they think it will, but they sound like nice people who love their child and want to provide the best environment they can. I don’t see how that can really be anything but a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/8 "2009-07-01T20:10:26Z")
What’s the problem, really, at this point in development? Strangers won’t know whether to compliment the baby on its looks or its strength? It does sound a bit wonky, but then I know a couple who does just this, though only with strangers. They got tired of people wondering why their little boy was dressed in purple, carrying a doll. Neither’s particulaly political, either – but I think having a kid just gave them a crash course in gender socialization. ---
**Author:** ![lshaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e36b37/32.png) [@lshaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lshaw)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/9 "2009-07-01T20:25:50Z")
I think it is pretty interesting, and I quite agree with their parents’ criticism of gender construction. But, I agree that I don’t see it working in the long term. The rest of the world is operating through the lenses of fixed gender construction, and it’s difficult to see the kid not being influenced. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/10 "2009-07-01T20:32:13Z")
Hey, I remember being read that story back in the 70’s! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/11 "2009-07-01T20:34:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Hey, I remember being read that story back in the 70’s! Baby X. I thought it was very clever at the time. Now I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/12 "2009-07-01T20:48:04Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Baby X. I thought it was very clever at the time. Now I’m not so sure. The whole story feels condescending, but I’m not sure who they’re condescending to. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/13 "2009-07-01T20:50:07Z")
Based on my experience, they won’t get away with it. If people don’t know what sex the baby is, they’ll just assign it one. My daughter was born with very fair, sparse, hair and people called her “him” even when she was dressed in pink with ribbons on. And after about age one or so, boys look like boys and girls look like girls, no matter how you dress them. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/14 "2009-07-01T20:56:56Z")
What pronouns will they be using? You can’t very well go around calling your child “it”, can you? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/15 "2009-07-01T20:58:14Z")
You can if your last name is Addams. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/16 "2009-07-01T21:05:48Z")
Nice quote from the article: > [@](#): > > “Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an individual,” Susan Pinker, a psychologist who is the author of a book about sex differences in the workplace, told the Local. “I don’t think that trying to keep a child’s sex a secret will fool anyone, nor do I think it’s wise or ethical. As with any family secret, when we try to keep an elemental truth from children, it usually blows up in the parents’ face, via psychosomatic illness or rebellious behavior.” There is nothing wrong with having a gender. I believe it is wrong to try to force a child to do things or not do things according to its gender. I believe that it’s bad to reinforce gender-based stereotypes. I believe that it’s good to encourage kids to bust up traditional gender notions if they want to and to bust them up yourself as an example. I believe that some people’s gender does not match their biological sex, and we should consider them whatever gender they wish to be considered. I believe it is wrong to teach a child that their gender determines their life choices. But how is pretending that your kid has no sex or gender going to help? I can see how it might be extremely harmful to force a child to be genderless. Enforcing this gender-free thing will make the kid much more highly aware of gender than if he or she were raised normally! ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/17 "2009-07-01T21:07:30Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > Based on my experience, they won’t get away with it. If people don’t know what sex the baby is, they’ll just assign it one. My daughter was born with very fair, sparse, hair and people called her “him” even when she was dressed in pink with ribbons on. And after about age one or so, boys look like boys and girls look like girls, no matter how you dress them. Eh, I dunno about that. Swedes have sort of cornered the market on the gorgeous androgynous look, especially where [their kids](http://www.dashinfashion.com/images/home/franka1.jpg) are concerned. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/18 "2009-07-01T21:11:15Z")
“Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop’s parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child – they just say Pop.” “Pop’s parents say that they will reveal the child’s gender when Pop thinks it is time to do so.” It sounds more to me like the kid is aware of his or her biological sex, but they’re not announcing it to everyone else yet. I don’t see the fuss. I know several couples who deliberately didn’t tell relatives and friends if they were having a boy or a girl, just to avoid getting all frilly pink stuff or “tuff guy” blue stuff at baby showers and the like. Until the kid is a little older, why should his or her gender matter to the world at large? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/19 "2009-07-01T21:14:20Z")
It seems less weird than I thought, esp. since they probably will reveal the baby’s gender when the kid gets to the point where they can’t. School, etc. Still, maybe the kid will announce it on their own. Three year olds are not known for their discretion, at least if the “Daddy, I have a WEINER” kids are anything to go by. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611/20 "2009-07-01T21:14:37Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > What pronouns will they be using? You can’t very well go around calling your child “it”, can you? “Skler” or “sklee”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/couple-to-raise-their-baby-without-assigning-it-a-gender/501611.md?page=2)