# Courage to Change: another bad AOC idea **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 21, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326 "2020-02-21T21:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/61 "2020-02-24T03:01:49Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > AOC showed what an idiot she is. She has a degree in economics and managed to mess up Milton Friedman and John Maynard Keynes, coming up with Milton Keynes. Perhaps she’s been riding trains in England in addition to spending time campaigning for Bernie, Milton Keynes is a town outside of London where it seems every train makes a stop. > > In all seriousness, that’s a horrible mistake to make. It would be like someone with a degree in history mixing up Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson Davis. I guess we have a different definition of “horrible mistake”. This is about as stupid as the hullabaloo over Klobuchar forgetting the name of the President of Mexico. People who make such trivialities into the main decision on who they vote for deserve the representation that they get. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/62 "2020-02-24T03:16:43Z")
OK let’s arrange a debate between AOC and Sarah… OK lets just imagine it… Oh that is good. Are you seeing this? You do and it’s a bipartisan position. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/63 "2020-02-24T03:38:01Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > AOC is the Sarah Palin of the left: highly skilled at rousing the faithful but with little governing ability or broader appeal. Like Palin she drives the other side crazy which is wrongly cited as evidence of her political potency. Chicks, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/64 "2020-02-24T03:56:15Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > A Sanders thrashing sends her to obscurity overnight. OMG that’s so wrong. Her support has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. A Sanders thrashing would in fact elevate her profile significantly, although I think shed rather it not happen that way nor at this time. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/65 "2020-02-24T04:44:19Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > I guess we have a different definition of “horrible mistake”. This is about as stupid as the hullabaloo over Klobuchar forgetting the name of the President of Mexico. > > People who make such trivialities into the main decision on who they vote for deserve the representation that they get. This is at least AOC’s second major economics flub. Remember her stupidity in not knowing how the unemployment rate was calculated? I can’t imagine any economics undergrad not being required to read Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/66 "2020-02-24T04:48:25Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > OMG that’s so wrong. Her support has nothing to do with Bernie Sanders. A Sanders thrashing would in fact elevate her profile significantly, although I think shed rather it not happen that way nor at this time. I doubt that. A Sanders thrashing means the loss of the House and they’ll be some young Paul Ryan wunderkind who will have the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/67 "2020-02-24T06:17:35Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > This is at least AOC’s second major economics flub. Remember her stupidity in not knowing how the unemployment rate was calculated? > > I can’t imagine any economics undergrad not being required to read Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes. No, I don’t remember those things. Do you have any cites? I kinda suspect, for example, that “not knowing how the unemployment rate (was) calculated” is likely more of either an Obama-style “57 states” misstatement or some off-handed hyperbole than it is any actual lack of knowledge on AOC’s part- which is why I ask. Her bio says she has a BA in Economics and International Relations, and that she graduated _cum laude_ and 4th in her class, so I would be very surprised to find the things you claim are true. Fourth in her class: [Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez named 2017 NHI Person of the Year - NHI Magazine](http://www.nhimagazine.com/2017/12/31/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-named-2017-nhi-person-year/) Graduation with BA and _cum laude_ status: [https://web.archive.org/web/20151123135730/http://www.bu.edu/commencement/files/2012/12/2011Redbook.pdf](https://web.archive.org/web/20151123135730/http://www.bu.edu/commencement/files/2012/12/2011Redbook.pdf) Degrees in Economics and International Relations: [https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/about/biography](https://ocasio-cortez.house.gov/about/biography) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/68 "2020-02-24T10:13:47Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > This is at least AOC’s second major economics flub. Remember her stupidity in not knowing how the unemployment rate was calculated? > > I can’t imagine any economics undergrad not being required to read Milton Friedman or John Maynard Keynes. These are the kind of “flubs” that smart, educated people who speak all the time about complicated topics make. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/69 "2020-02-24T17:46:02Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ve seen no evidence that she’s “ignorant” or “frequently sounds like an idiot”. I’ve seen a few mistakes, but every Democrat has made a few rhetorical mistakes. I’ve seen no evidence that she’s said more dumb or ignorant things over the last year or two than most other prominent Democrats. Occasional mistakes aren’t Palinesque. AOC obviously reads and has intellectual curiosity. How much intellectual curiosity does it take to be a bartender in the Bronx? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/70 "2020-02-24T17:49:44Z")
> [@](#): > > …Ocasio-Cortez graduated cum laude from Boston University College of Arts and Sciences with a BA in 2011, majoring in international relations and economics… Wiki, natch. Sorry to interrupt, you were sneering…? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/71 "2020-02-24T18:04:25Z")
Here’s AOC showing her stupidity about how the unemployment rate is calculated. > **[PolitiFact - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrong on several counts about unemployment](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/)** > > Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a self-described democratic socialist and former organizer for Bernie Sanders' 2016 presidenti ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/72 "2020-02-24T18:06:51Z")
She is only going after one democrat so far with her PAC. I guess that’s an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/73 "2020-02-24T18:07:21Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > Here’s AOC showing her stupidity about how the unemployment rate is calculated. > [PolitiFact | Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wrong on several counts about unemployment](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2018/jul/18/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-wrong-several-counts-abou/) That one has already been trotted out a dozen times. That AOC-haters are having to pull the same few mundane mistakes over and over again to support their AOC-hatred just shows how little an actual basis there is. AOC is not the enemy. She’s a young, energetic progressive with a lot of talent who occasionally makes rhetorical mistakes. Give her some time to learn before you jump all over her. She’s just a first-term House Rep. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/74 "2020-02-24T18:09:25Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > What’s her future if Bernie is the nominee and gets destroyed? > [@RTFirefly](#): > > If Trump gets another term, how much will it matter what her future is? We’ll _all_ be in for a pretty bad future, same as if Biden or Buttigieg is the nominee and gets destroyed. > > :rolleyes: > [@dalej42](#): > > Actually it does. Biden rides off into the sunset if he loses either the primary or general. > > Pete has definitely not hitched his wagon to the Bernie train, he will be a force going forward. > > AOC is full blown Bernie sis and is trying to get Dems who don’t meet her purity standards primaried. A Sanders thrashing sends her to obscurity overnight. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the point is that the country will have far, far bigger fish to fry than the political careers of a few individuals if Trump wins. If Trump wins, we’re screwed. Doesn’t matter how and whom he beats. My point exactly. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/75 "2020-02-24T18:26:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That one has already been trotted out a dozen times. That AOC-haters are having to pull the same few mundane mistakes over and over again to support their AOC-hatred just shows how little an actual basis there is. Right, right - just a few, minor nitpicking details where she’s wrong. Why, [over a third of the time she is actually telling the truth, more or less! (As opposed to the 62% of the time where she isn’t.)](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/) But as you say, she’s just a first-termer. No doubt by the time the world has ended in ten years or so, she will be right more than half the time. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/76 "2020-02-24T18:41:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Right, right - just a few, minor nitpicking details where she’s wrong. Why, [over a third of the time she is actually telling the truth, more or less! (As opposed to the 62% of the time where she isn’t.)](https://www.politifact.com/personalities/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/) > > But as you say, she’s just a first-termer. No doubt by the time the world has ended in ten years or so, she will be right more than half the time. > > Regards, > Shodan Wow, a sample size in the single digits! IMO, that qualifies as “just a few”, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/77 "2020-02-24T18:51:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That one has already been trotted out a dozen times. That AOC-haters are having to pull the same few mundane mistakes over and over again to support their AOC-hatred just shows how little an actual basis there is. AOC is not the enemy. She’s a young, energetic progressive with a lot of talent who occasionally makes rhetorical mistakes. Give her some time to learn before you jump all over her. She’s just a first-term House Rep. She’s got a degree in Economics! The basics of calculating the unemployment rate in the USA is covered in any Intro to Macroeconomics class and I bet she had to take at least one core Labor Economics class. And, if you’re going to run your mouth about it. I’d at least double check my facts. I expect more from here than some blowhard on CNBC. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/78 "2020-02-24T19:02:13Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > She’s got a degree in Economics! The basics of calculating the unemployment rate in the USA is covered in any Intro to Macroeconomics class and I bet she had to take at least one core Labor Economics class. And, if you’re going to run your mouth about it. I’d at least double check my facts. I expect more from here than some blowhard on CNBC. Hopefully she’s learned from this mistake. AFAICT, most of her (relatively few) mistakes were made very early in her tenure, and she’s made fewer, if any, since then. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/79 "2020-02-24T19:08:26Z")
While this thread has descended into the **dalej42** show because of his weak-sauce _ad hominem_ attacks on AOC, which are being joined by some of the conservative “usual suspects”, I would like to hear what dopers think of the Courage to Change PAC, more specifically using AOC’s fundraising abilities to primary other Democrats instead of holding our powder for the real enemy in the general election. My opinion is that this is part and parcel of the whole Sanders-ist belief that the enthusiasm of the progressive base is the alpha-and-omega of this election and somehow purple districts and states that only just squeaked into the blue column in the last election, or that are real toss-ups this election, will go DEEEEP blue (progresssive) in the general election. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/80 "2020-02-24T19:15:23Z")
At least she knows who are the Republicans, and who are the Democrats. [Except when she doesn’t](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/04/25/republican-democrat-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-twitter-gaffe/3581611002/). And of course we need to get rid of the [mistaken idea that taxes pay for 100% of government expenditures](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/02/08/ocasio-cortez_we_have_to_break_the_mistaken_idea_that_taxes_pay_for_all_spending.html), because they don’t. There’s also deficit spending, which is a good idea when done to support her Green New Deal but a bad idea when Republicans do it. Because we apparently don’t have record low unemployment, and need more jobs for everybody to have two of, which causes unemployment. Of course she has mentioned that she finds questions about how to pay for her proposals [puzzling](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ocasio-cortez-calls-question-about-how-to-pay-for-medicare-for-all-puzzling). She is pretty and passionate as well as innumerate, so she seems well-equipped to be the face of the progressives, no matter what, if anything, is behind that face. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326.md?page=5)