# Courage to Change: another bad AOC idea **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 21, 2020, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326 "2020-02-21T21:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/121 "2020-02-27T15:19:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Right. Just like the Republicans embraced the tea partiers and Trump because they got a bunch of folks excited. Does this make the Democrats a better party or just more sensational and stupider? Huh? Are you saying the Tea Party folks were as talented as Obama? If not, then what are you saying? Maybe you disagree about AOC, but if she’s as talented as I think she is than the party is lucky to have her, and she’ll be a major player for decades. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/122 "2020-02-27T15:21:05Z")
There’s no conflict here except for those that want to manufacture one. So far, AOC and her allies haven’t pushed a single blue seat red, or done anything else that could harm the party. If they take action that results in loss of House seats for the Democrats than I’ll certainly criticize her as well, but nothing like that has happened yet. So far, the only Democrats she is targeting are shitty Dems in safely blue seats. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/123 "2020-02-27T15:28:32Z")
It does not appear that AOC’s endorsements and support have been terribly effective so far. > [@](#): > > [Ocasio-Cortez endorsed Democrat Kerri Evelyn Harris in her U.S. Senate race against three-term Sen. Thomas Carper (D-Delaware). Three members of Ocasio-Cortez’s campaign staff were sent to assist Harris with her campaign ahead of the September 6, 2018, primary election.[26] A spokesman for Ocasio-Cortez said the gesture is in part a thank you to Harris and her staff for assisting in the final days of Ocasio-Cortez’s primary campaign in New York.[26] Harris was aligned with Justice Democrats—a group seeking to recruit and support liberal candidates to run for open seats or challenge incumbents, according to CBS News.[26] After winning her primary election on June 26, 2018, Ocasio-Cortez endorsed several additional candidates aligned with Justice Democrats, including Brent Welder of Kansas, Abdul El-Sayed of Michigan, and Julia Salazar of New York.[26]](https://ballotpedia.org/Alexandria_Ocasio-Cortez) Julie Salazar is the only one who won the general election, and she ran unopposed. None of the others won their primaries, or even came close. If she’s trying to push the party further to the left, it ain’t working. Now she has endorsed Bernie Sanders. That is not automatically the kiss of death, but if I were Bernie, I wouldn’t be picking out furniture for the White House just yet. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/124 "2020-02-27T15:55:57Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > She won a primary against a ten-year incumbent who was chair of the House Democratic Caucus, considered to be the probable successor to Nancy Pelosi as Speaker, and boss of the Queens County Democratic organization. > > That was no small accomplishment. > > And yes, her district is overwhelmingly blue (much like, say, Nancy Pelosi’s district), as is just about every district in New York City. So what? > > I know her district quite well, having grown up there, and spent half my adult life in the district. The people there aren’t idiots, and voters turned out for her rather than the boss who’d held the seat for a decade. I grew up her district and lived there when I first got married, but that was decades ago so my view may be dated but IIRC the area has a large immigrant population and low voter turnout. She got 17K votes in a primary with a 13% voter turnout against an overconfident incumbent that barely noticed someone was running against him until it was too late. You sure “voters turned out for her” Or did a small minority of voters determine who the Democratic candidate would be? > [@](#): > > She is persuasive. She’s smart and driven and charismatic, and she’s not going away. And, like it or not, she, and others like her, \*are \*the future of the party. Who has she persuaded that wasn’t already inclined to agree with her? Just like the tea party was the future of the Republican party and look where it got them. > [@](#): > > The old guard better embrace that, or they’re going to be left behind. Should the Republican party have embraced the tea party more than it did? The Justice Democrats endorsed 79 candidates in 2018. 6 of them won. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/125 "2020-02-27T16:01:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think the point is that the country will have far, far bigger fish to fry than the political careers of a few individuals if Trump wins. If Trump wins, we’re screwed. Doesn’t matter how and whom he beats. It will be a repudiation of the far left. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/126 "2020-02-27T16:04:33Z")
Any thought that AOC may be better as the Chair of the DNC than a Representative? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/127 "2020-02-27T16:07:18Z")
There are some tactical similarities between the tea party movement and Justice Democrats but they aren’t the same. You’re saying everyone should logically feel the same way about both. That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/128 "2020-02-27T16:13:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think it’s probably good in some cases (i.e. getting rid of Dan Lipinski, a crappy Democrat in a solid blue district) and not so good in others (various red-to-blue flippers from '18 who ran as moderates in moderate-to-conservative districts). I’d have to see specifically which districts she’s targeting – hopefully she’ll go after the ones like Lipinski’s. That is the Rush Limbaugh/Tea Party playbook in reverse. Their plan was to run the most conservative Republican that can win in a given election. Do we want to follow suit? Do we really want to see what sort of Donald Trump the left will produce? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/129 "2020-02-27T16:27:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Any thought that AOC may be better as the Chair of the DNC than a Representative? It would be better for Republicans. Is that what you mean? Once again, Pelosi is Speaker because moderate Dems took districts away from Republicans, not because further left Dems beat more centrist Dems in Dem districts. If the DNC starts endorsing Dems based on how progressive they are, as opposed to who can win in their districts, then Dems will lose. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/130 "2020-02-27T16:30:37Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > That is the Rush Limbaugh/Tea Party playbook in reverse. Their plan was to run the most conservative Republican that can win in a given election. Do we want to follow suit? Yes! I want the most progressive Rep and Senator that can win the election, at least until the party is considerably more progressive than it is now. I want the party to be closer to my view while still winning. I assume you feel the same way – “your view” is just in a different place than mine. > [@](#): > > Do we really want to see what sort of Donald Trump the left will produce? There is no comparison. Trump’s electoral success wasn’t about right/left – it was about culture and bigotry. There’s no equivalent on the left right now. ---
**Author:** ![Warm\_blood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Warm\_blood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Warm_blood)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/131 "2020-02-27T17:19:53Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > My hate for her grew when she grilled Mark Zuckerberg when he was testifying. She was rude - cutting him off and not letting him answer then mischaracterizing the little he was allowed to say. Yes I know every politician uses testimony time to grandstand and make speeches and be a jerk to someone you disagree with but my god she was over-the-top even for Congress. Mark tried to equivocate his way out of every question. All AOC did was hold him accountable. If she had allowed him to get away with his non-answers, chances are you would have a problem with that tool ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/132 "2020-02-27T23:08:01Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > There’s no conflict here except for those that want to manufacture one. So far, AOC and her allies haven’t pushed a single blue seat red, or done anything else that could harm the party. If they take action that results in loss of House seats for the Democrats than I’ll certainly criticize her as well, but nothing like that has happened yet. So far, the only Democrats she is targeting are shitty Dems in safely blue seats. That’s a good thing, not a bad thing. So how was Joe Crowley a shitty Democrat? And in what way is trading moderate democrats in safe blue seats any different than targetting moderate republicans in safe red seats? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/133 "2020-02-27T23:12:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > There are some tactical similarities between the tea party movement and Justice Democrats but they aren’t the same. You’re saying everyone should logically feel the same way about both. That’s ridiculous. There is more than a passing similarity between the Justice Democrats and the tea party. They are both trying to radicalize their parties and make their parties as far left or right as their constituencies will tolerate. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/134 "2020-02-27T23:17:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Who has she persuaded that wasn’t already inclined to agree with her? Just like the tea party was the future of the Republican party and look where it got them. The White House, Congress, and two Supreme Court picks? Yeah, let’s not let that happen for the dems. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/135 "2020-02-27T23:17:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes! I want the most progressive Rep and Senator that can win the election, at least until the party is considerably more progressive than it is now. I want the party to be closer to my view while still winning. I assume you feel the same way – “your view” is just in a different place than mine. So then you see the analogy between the justice democrats and the tea party? That is exactly what Rush Limbaugh and the tea party did to the Republicans. > [@](#): > > There is no comparison. Trump’s electoral success wasn’t about right/left – it was about culture and bigotry. There’s no equivalent on the left right now. It would not have been possible without the tea party insurgency. At the very extremes, the far left is not much better than the far right. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/136 "2020-02-27T23:18:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So how was Joe Crowley a shitty Democrat? There was no net loss. Maybe you don’t like AOC, but I do (a lot more than Crowley, certainly), so I see it as a net gain. She ran against him and won. There’s absolutely nothing wrong or harmful with young, talented progressives running for office in blue districts, even in primaries against other Democrats. > [@](#): > > And in what way is trading moderate democrats in safe blue seats any different than targetting moderate republicans in safe red seats? Who cares whether it’s different or not? More progressive Democrats in blue seats is good, at least from a progressive perspective. And Democrats are Democrats – different from Republicans. Not sure what point you’re trying to make here. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/137 "2020-02-27T23:19:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The White House, Congress, and two Supreme Court picks? > > Yeah, let’s not let that happen for the dems. :rolleyes: She hasn’t persuaded any of those things. WTF are you even talking about? Are you saying that we will take control of government if we follow her lead? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/138 "2020-02-27T23:22:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So then you see the analogy between the justice democrats and the tea party? That is exactly what Rush Limbaugh and the tea party did to the Republicans. No, they went nuts to the hateful right. I don’t want to do that – I want to go the not-hateful, not nuts progressive left. Left is different than right; progressive is different than nutty and hateful. > [@](#): > > It would not have been possible without the tea party insurgency. At the very extremes, the far left is not much better than the far right. AOC isn’t “far left” to this point. Pretty much no one in the party is. The “far left” you’re talking about are the commies, way, way to the left of Bernie and AOC. No one is advocating for them. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/139 "2020-02-27T23:25:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > She hasn’t persuaded any of those things. WTF are you even talking about? > > Are you saying that we will take control of government if we follow her lead? He’s saying that the Republican strategy you’re decrying was enormously successful. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2020, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326/140 "2020-02-27T23:58:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > She hasn’t persuaded any of those things. WTF are you even talking about? > > Are you saying that we will take control of government if we follow her lead? Rather she follow ours. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courage-to-change-another-bad-aoc-idea/848326.md?page=8)