# Court: No more life mandatory without parole for juveniles \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298 "2012-06-25T22:12:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/1 "2012-06-25T22:12:17Z")
[Court: No more life without parole for juveniles](http://news.yahoo.com/court-no-more-life-without-parole-juveniles-141228376.html) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court ruled Monday that it is unconstitutional for states to require juveniles convicted of murder to be sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole. > > The 5-4 decision is in line with others the court has made, including ruling out the death penalty for juveniles and life without parole for young people whose crimes did not involve killing. Monday’s decision left open the possibility that judges could sentence juveniles to life without parole in individual cases of murder, but said state laws cannot automatically impose such a sentence. 8th Amendment Synopsis The Eighth Amendment was adopted, as part of the Bill of Rights, in 1791. It is almost identical to a provision in the English Bill of Rights of 1689, in which Parliament declared, "as their ancestors in like cases have usually done…that excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” * * * Okay, here is my question. Why is is cruel and unusual for a Life w/o Parole for a minor, but not an adult? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/2 "2012-06-25T22:38:36Z")
The title is pretty misleading. No more **mandatory** life without parole for juveniles. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/3 "2012-06-25T22:42:00Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The title is pretty misleading. No more **mandatory** life without parole for juveniles. Yes, and that’s a key distinction. A judge can still sentence a juvenile to life w/o parole. The legislature or voters via initiative cannot set a mandatory minimum sentence of life w/o parole for crimes committed by a juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/4 "2012-06-25T22:54:25Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The title is pretty misleading. No more **mandatory** life without parole for juveniles. Point of clarification. That title is cut and paste. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/5 "2012-06-25T22:56:04Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Point of clarification. That title is cut and paste. Would you mind if I changed it? It’s not that you’re trying to mislead anyone, it’s that the thread title is not an accurate summary of the ruling. [Title updated] ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/6 "2012-06-25T22:58:32Z")
I was gladdened upon hearing this. It’s a small step in the right direction. Adolescents are not adults. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/7 "2012-06-25T23:00:54Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Okay, here is my question. Why is is cruel and unusual for a Life w/o Parole for a minor, but not an adult? Okay, the [opinion](http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-9646g2i8.pdf) is long as hell and I don’t want to wade through it all, but I’ll say a few things anyway, which might be wildly inaccurate. It’d be nice to see a brief on it but it’s probably too soon for that. First of all, the ruling is about \*mandatory \*life without parole for certain crimes. I think this would only be the case for juveniles transferred to the adult system, but in many states there is _no minimum age_ for that, and in some states certain crimes are \*automatically \*transferred to adult court. So it seems the court is saying that youthfulness has to be allowed to be considered as a mitigating circumstance, but not that it has to be. And wow, both of the cases in question (apparently there were originally two separate ones) involve 14-year-olds, and in one case the boy isn’t even the one who killed the person: > [@](#): > > Jackson accompanied two other boys to a video store to commit a robbery; on the way to the store, he learned that one of the boys was carrying a shotgun. Jackson stayed outside the store for most of the robbery, but after he entered, one of his co-conspirators shot and killed the store clerk. Anyway, I definitely agree with this ruling but I don’t agree with mandatory life without parole for adults either (I do believe it should be an option). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/8 "2012-06-25T23:02:57Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Okay, here is my question. Why is is cruel and unusual for a Life w/o Parole for a minor, but not an adult? For me it’s the realization that adolescents are often just kids. I make allowance for the super evil adolescent that know exactly what the hell he’s doing, but I think generally there should be an assumption that if you’re under 17 or so, you’re going to make mistakes. Even big ones. I’m a big believer on personal responsibility, but that means that you hold people accountable who deserve to be accountable for their actions. Kids, or those with mental challenges deserve a something a bit more flexible. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/9 "2012-06-25T23:15:44Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For me it’s the realization that adolescents are often just kids. I make allowance for the super evil adolescent that know exactly what the hell he’s doing, but I think generally there should be an assumption that if you’re under 17 or so, you’re going to make mistakes. Even big ones. I’m a big believer on personal responsibility, but that means that you hold people accountable who deserve to be accountable for their actions. Kids, or those with mental challenges deserve a something a bit more flexible. I differentiate between evil crimes and stupid crimes. Most crimes are stupid, including most serious ones. Evil is like torturing someone, or thrill killing. Stupid is killing someone in the course of a robbery (could also be evil, but not usually). For evil crimes I agree with life without parole, for juveniles or adults, because there’s no reforming evilness. I also think with juveniles there needs to be a little extra presumption that it was stupidity, because they do have diminished capacity to make decisions and they’re more easily influenced (the court said that last part in the opinion as well). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/10 "2012-06-25T23:21:23Z")
[Bryan Stevenson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Stevenson) deserves enormous credit for everything that’s happened at the constitutional level on juvenile justice in the last decade. > [@magellan01](#): > > I was gladdened upon hearing this. It’s a small step in the right direction. Adolescents are not adults. I’m heartened to hear this isn’t purely a left-right divide. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/11 "2012-06-25T23:23:41Z")
I tend to side with the court on this, but recognize that “cruel and unusual” pretty subjective, and I wouldn’t think someone was evil or stupid if they disagreed with the court. Since many states allow this, I can’t see that it’s “unusual”, so I’m going with “cruel”. And yes, the cutoff is somewhat arbitrary sine someone who is a day shy of 18 isn’t all that different from some a day past his 18th birthday. But, if you’re going to draw a line, then that’s just in the nature lines. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-no-more-life-mandatory-without-parole-for-juveniles-edited-title/626298/12 "2012-06-26T20:03:47Z")
No comment on the constitutional issues but mandatory sentencing is clearly stupid and evil punishment, whether it be cruel and unusual or not. And life without parole is obscene as well (although I have no problem with indefinite incarceration) And yeah - I would go with for under 16s a max of 12 years in prison, and for that there had better have been some serious killin’. 16-21 could be sentenced as adults but only in extreme cases, not the routine murders I understasnd they are done for in the Red US.