# Court oath - refusing the Bible **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627 "2003-09-05T00:30:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/21 "2003-09-05T20:09:28Z")
You’re probably right, that makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/22 "2003-09-05T20:28:27Z")
If it is any help, we have a fair number of Amish in the area. As I understand it their interpretation of “Thou shall not take the Lord’s name in vain” extends to the oath taken by witnesses in law suits and court trials. Typically they will not swear to tell the truth. They will affirm that their testimony is truthful. Our rules provide that alternative—“swear or affirm.” Either method is more than sufficient to support a perjury or a contempt prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/23 "2003-09-05T20:29:56Z")
The oath may vary from state to state and possibly court to court. Having served on the local criminal grand jury the foreperson asked each witness to state their name, and government agency as applicable, and were sworn in by asking: “Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?” A simple yes was all that was required but some older individuals would answer “Yes so help me God.” or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/24 "2003-09-05T23:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spavined Gelding \* > **If it is any help, we have a fair number of Amish in the area. As I understand it their interpretation of “Thou shall not take the Lord’s name in vain” extends to the oath taken by witnesses in law suits and court trials.** Actually, I think you will find that they base their objection to swearing on Mathhew 5:33-37, not on Exodus 20:7. “5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 5:34 But I say unto you, **Swear not at all** ; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: 5:35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 5:36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for **whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil**.” That seems plain enough to me. Swearing oaths if forbidden by the Bible. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![slipster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@slipster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slipster)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/25 "2003-09-05T23:40:38Z")
It is customary for the government to require that a person affirm, rather than swear, in other contexts besides court testimony. For instance, federal civil servants typically swear an oath on their first day on the job. I recall that during one such ceremony in which I participated a coworker politely objected that she was an athiest, and so she inducted separately, saying “I do” to a query as to whether she affirmed that she would uphold the Constitution, etc. BTW, just as The Bible appears to take a dim view of swearing oaths, it is also seems critical of public prayer in various places. It was the custom of my high school football team to say a prayer on the sidelines prior to a game. My father, a Roman Catholic of a particularly conservative bent, wrote a letter of complaint, objecting that they should do that in the privacy of the locker room rather than as an ostentatious display. (Televised services are presumably another issue as (1) they are generally held in a church and (2) on has to tune in to see them). ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/26 "2003-09-06T00:45:45Z")
**Northern Piper & Telemark** I did not confine this posting strictly to atheists. Notice I did NOT use the word atheist in my original posting? I was wondering (as someone mentioned about the Amish) if people objected to swearing on the Bible for _whatever_ reason and what is the alternative. Incidentally, if I were on trial for murder (let’s say) I wouldn’t even make a big deal of saying “I affirm” instead of “I swear”. After all, this would taint someone’s image of me and bring me closer to a guilty verdict (IMHO). ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/27 "2003-09-06T01:51:30Z")
**Agback** , thank you for clearing that up. That makes more sense. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/28 "2003-09-06T02:34:47Z")
What I’ve wondered about recently is, how would Judge Roy-my god is bigger than your god-Moore have handled it if a person in his court didn’t want to swear on a bible, but rather affirm, or use one of the optional oaths for non-christians? I suppose it wouldn’t have been an issue, but based on his recent activities I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/29 "2003-09-06T03:02:42Z")
In Immigration Court, there was no Bible involved, although the usual oath used the “swear” language. Whenever someone said they wouldn’t swear an oath (for religious reasons or whatever), the judge would simply change the wording to “affirm, on penalty of perjury.” Pretty tidy, no? Eva Luna, former Immigration Court interpreter ---
**Author:** ![county](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@county](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/county)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/30 "2003-09-06T03:49:20Z")
I do a lot of administrative law and in those various hearings the hearing official/administrative law judge/arbitrator/whoever usually asks the reporter to swear the witness - no bible and the simple question of “Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth” I have no idea what would happen if someone said no but I doubt they would get to testify. ---
**Author:** ![Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/31 "2003-09-06T03:52:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by slipster \* > \*\*BTW, just as The Bible appears to take a dim view of swearing oaths, it is also seems critical of public prayer in various places. It was the custom of my high school football team to say a prayer on the sidelines prior to a game. My father, a Roman Catholic of a particularly conservative bent, wrote a letter of complaint, objecting that they should do that in the privacy of the locker room rather than as an ostentatious display. (Televised services are presumably another issue as (1) they are generally held in a church and (2) on has to tune in to see them). \*\* FYI, that’d be from Matthew [6:5-6:](http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=MATT%2B6&showfn=on&showxref=on&language=english&version=KJV&x=17&y=3) > [@](#): > > _5_ And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. > _6_ But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. I always wanted to stand near the Prayer at the Pole kids in high school and hold a sign that said “MATTHEW 6:5”, just to see if anyone knew what I was talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/32 "2003-09-06T06:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolf\_meister \* > \*\ ***Northern Piper & Telemark** > > I did not confine this posting strictly to atheists. > Notice I did NOT use the word atheist in my original posting? I was wondering (as someone mentioned about the Amish) if people objected to swearing on the Bible for _whatever_ reason and what is the alternative.\*\* **wolf\_meister** , and I didn’t give that name to that thread - that’s what the OP in that case called it. Did you look at it? you’ll see that the discussion in it went farther afield than just atheists and considered Christians such as Quakers who objected to swearing an oath, and non-christians such as Jews, Muslims and First Nations. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/33 "2003-09-07T06:25:44Z")
**Northern Piper** Sorry, I just looked at the posting title and thought it was just “Atheist” related. That posting had some good information too. I should have searched the archives more thoroughly. I would have answered your posting sooner but the “Boards” today have been awful. I’d click on Message Boards then General Questions, etc. Somewhere along the way I’d get booted. (With luck, maybe this will get posted). Thanks again Northern. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627/34 "2003-09-07T21:55:55Z")
You’re welcome. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-oath-refusing-the-bible/199627.md?page=1)