# Court strikes down net neutrality. Who's on the side of the angels here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 14, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801 "2014-01-14T19:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/101 "2014-01-21T15:23:36Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I assume you didn’t read [this post?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17017534&postcount=28) I suppose we’re talking past each other at this point, but once again, you are claiming net neutrality should be solving a problem nobody claims it should solve. And most of the points you presented in that post are supported by no evidence (actually, some of them are just wrong). At this point, I’m not sure what your point is. Is it that we should be devoting all our resources into the _different_ problem of fostering competition in internet service? If so, that’s unrealistic and incredibly vague. And, as I noted earlier, there’s no reason net neutrality can’t work in tandem with such efforts. > [@Deeg](#): > > Don’t we have the same sort of specification problems with NN? How do we measure NN? How do we prove that an ISP is specifically targeting a provider and not just exhibiting incompetence? Does it matter? Incompetence is no excuse. Not that it’s a good excuse. Neutrality in access is one of the simplest things to do - you don’t do anything. You actually do have to put in an effort to shape internet traffic. Besides, it’s already been measured in a number of cases. And ISPs have sheepishly admitted testing it in the cases it’s been measured. Not all end users are network engineers, but there’s enough people monitoring their own connections that few things actually slip by. > [@Deeg](#): > > What about situations where the technology leads to inherent differences? (E.g. to NYC users Netflix servers on the West coast will be slower than Comcast servers on the East coast.) Again, people have already measured stuff like this. > [@Deeg](#): > > Are ISPs allowed to offer tiered service? If so, what tiers? Who watches all the ISPs for compliance? Again, end users often monitor their own connections. > [@Deeg](#): > > C) How were the phone lines handled after the breakup? Could we model something like that? Nope. The phone lines still belonged to the individual Baby Bells. Long distance service between the regional monopolies was handled separately. The internet works in a fundamentally different way. Using this as a model would mean separate bills for “local” internet service within your ISPs network and “long distance” internet service to everybody else, which is the sort of problem we were trying to avoid in the first place. At some point, it would help to become more familiar with the basic architecture of the internet and how the various protocols running on top of it work. Bland generalities are ok for soundbites, but they fail when you get into the nitty gritty. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/102 "2014-01-21T16:03:14Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Don’t we have the same sort of specification problems with NN? How do we measure NN? How do we prove that an ISP is specifically targeting a provider and not just exhibiting incompetence? What about situations where the technology leads to inherent differences? (E.g. to NYC users Netflix servers on the West coast will be slower than Comcast servers on the East coast.) Are ISPs allowed to offer tiered service? If so, what tiers? Who watches all the ISPs for compliance? Net Neutrality is incredibly easy to monitor. Take your iPhone/Android and connect to the web on your home connection at an off-peak time. Can you pull video from Netflix as fast as you can from Hulu? Can you pull [Microsoft.com](http://Microsoft.com) as fast as you can pull [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)? If you ever suspect anything being “funky”, there are applications that can test all of this for you. Then you just deliver that data to the authorities. As for “tiers” they are allowed to offer the same tiers they have, today. Want 2mbps service for $30 or 50mbps service for $70? And so forth. Net Neutrality only affects the \*content \*that runs across the service. It explicitly bans changing the priority or dynamic of that content for any reason (e.g. you got a lot of money dumped on you from Google to make Google’s stuff run faster and be served first compared to other sites they may be competing with). It forces first come, first served. If user 1 requests Breaking Bad on Hulu and User 2 requests Trigun on Netflix, they get served in the order they requested and, for example, User 2 doesn’t have to wait until all of the Breaking Bad packets get served for the initial buffering to start his own buffering. This is the extent of NN: Serve all customers equally. > [@Deeg](#): > > To answer your questions: > > A) Good question. I’d say anything that supports broadband is potentially fair game. What were the regulations when AT&T was broken up? Each regional phone company directly owned the hardware. Additionally, there was only one network. You didn’t have, for instance, the service options of DSL (phone-co-based) and cable internet (coaxial cable based) and wireless (transmission tower based) and satellite (er…satellite based). > [@Deeg](#): > > B) Sounds like a technical question for the ISPs. If we nationalize the hardware, it’s a question for us, the tax payer. The ISPs only offer the _service_ component that runs on top of the wires/fibers that have been nationalized. > [@Deeg](#): > > C) How were the phone lines handled after the breakup? Could we model something like that? Like I said, new companies came up, were given regional control, and all of the hardware was given over to them as real property. This is the current model we already have. Comcast own’s the coax, the phone co owns the DSL nodes and wiring. The mobile carriers own the transmission towers, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/103 "2014-01-21T17:53:01Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I suppose we’re talking past each other at this point, but once again, you are claiming net neutrality should be solving a problem nobody claims it should solve. And most of the points you presented in that post are supported by no evidence (actually, some of them are just wrong). Obviously I disagree but perhaps we should start over. What do you propose for NN? What do you hope to accomplish with it? And how do you plan to enforce it? ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/104 "2014-01-21T18:00:01Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Obviously I disagree but perhaps we should start over. What do you propose for NN? What do you hope to accomplish with it? And how do you plan to enforce it? Net neutrality makes it so that internet service providers cannot prioritize or deny internet traffic. This will make it so that large media interests that own the ISPs or large internet powerhouses cannot block smaller competitors to their products. It will be enforced by report. If someone reports to the appropriate government agency that they are having issues with their service, it’s investigated and the service provider is fined harshly, if found with wrong doing. Simple. Easy. Supports competition. It’s exactly how the internet currently works. Only Service Providers can’t change away from this mandate like they want to, now, for cold hard cash. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/105 "2014-01-21T18:02:37Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Net Neutrality is incredibly easy to monitor. Take your iPhone/Android and connect to the web on your home connection at an off-peak time. Can you pull video from Netflix as fast as you can from Hulu? Can you pull [Microsoft.com](http://Microsoft.com) as fast as you can pull [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com)? This is not how the internet works. You can run your tests now and then run them later tonight and get different results. If Netflix is downloading poorly how do you know it’s your ISP? Maybe Netflix is having a problem, or maybe Netflix’s own ISP is having a problem, or maybe there’s a storm that’s knocked out the power to a few routers and Netflix’s traffic is taking more hops. You’d have to keep long-term stats and then prove it was something being done by the local ISP and not something inherent in the internet. Then you have to decide if it’s actually a problem worth solving. What if Comcast’s internal stream servers are a few %'s faster than Netflix’s? What about 10%? 20%? Do you require Comast to explicitly slow down their internal streaming so it doesn’t download faster than Netflix? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/106 "2014-01-21T18:02:37Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Obviously I disagree but perhaps we should start over. What do you propose for NN? What do you hope to accomplish with it? And how do you plan to enforce it? See above. Also note, it does not enforce competition, merely makes it harder to quash competition. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/107 "2014-01-21T18:07:40Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > See above. > > Also note, it does not enforce competition, merely makes it harder to quash competition. _shrug_ Well, I’ve given my points and you’ve given yours. I believe my ideas are better, you think yours are better. I guess we’re done. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/108 "2014-01-21T18:13:46Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > _shrug_ Well, I’ve given my points and you’ve given yours. I believe my ideas are better, you think yours are better. I guess we’re done. Sure. But I’m reasonably sure that’s because you don’t actually have the same definition/understanding of net neutrality and “the internet” that everybody else does. As I stated earlier, your responses indicate a lack of understanding of some of the basic building blocks and protocols of the internet. I will also note that your previous post on “how the internet works” is pretty much wrong in several ways, among them, how network routing (and throughput) works, and what happens if the problem is on Netflix’s end (they let everybody know). It actually is relatively simple to determine if the problem is traffic shaping or not. As noted, people have been doing this for a few years now. It’s not rocket science, and it’s not as ambiguous as you are making it out to be. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/109 "2014-01-21T18:26:46Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I will also note that your previous post on “how the internet works” is pretty much wrong in several ways, among them, how network routing (and throughput) works, and what happens if the problem is on Netflix’s end (they let everybody know). What’s your background? And give me a specific reason you think I’m wrong. I’m a software engineer and have worked for multiple web companies, some large. I have a pretty good idea what happens on both ends. You’ll have to give me more than just “you’re wrong”. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It actually is relatively simple to determine if the problem is traffic shaping or not. This makes me think you don’t understand the problem. What about the situation where Comcast’s servers are better and thus faster? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/110 "2014-01-21T18:31:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > This is not how the internet works. You can run your tests now and then run them later tonight and get different results. If Netflix is downloading poorly how do you know it’s your ISP? Maybe Netflix is having a problem, or maybe Netflix’s own ISP is having a problem, or maybe there’s a storm that’s knocked out the power to a few routers and Netflix’s traffic is taking more hops. You’d have to keep long-term stats and then prove it was something being done by the local ISP and not something inherent in the internet. Then you have to decide if it’s actually a problem worth solving. What if Comcast’s internal stream servers are a few %'s faster than Netflix’s? What about 10%? 20%? Do you require Comast to explicitly slow down their internal streaming so it doesn’t download faster than Netflix? You do know it’s been adequately enforced for five years, right? ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/111 "2014-01-21T18:46:09Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > This is not how the internet works. You can run your tests now and then run them later tonight and get different results. If Netflix is downloading poorly how do you know it’s your ISP? Maybe Netflix is having a problem, or maybe Netflix’s own ISP is having a problem, or maybe there’s a storm that’s knocked out the power to a few routers and Netflix’s traffic is taking more hops. You’d have to keep long-term stats and then prove it was something being done by the local ISP and not something inherent in the internet. Then you have to decide if it’s actually a problem worth solving. What if Comcast’s internal stream servers are a few %'s faster than Netflix’s? What about 10%? 20%? Do you require Comast to explicitly slow down their internal streaming so it doesn’t download faster than Netflix? Because, if Netflix is completely out, you wouldn’t be able to open Netflix to start the stream. Note also that Netflix isn’t hosted out of someone’s garage. It has multiple data centers. If it’s completely out for some reason, you’ll see the Twitter post about the Hand of God Nebula wiping out internet data centers and/or see people fleeing in panic in the streets. If Netflix is slower than Hulu or Comcast’s servers, you can easily tell if it’s packet shaping by simply using something like Max Plank Institute’s traffic shaping analysis tool. And this isn’t “OH MY GAW ONE PERSON COMPLAINED THAT NETFLIX IS SLOW!” It’s very (very) easy to check on the status of the internet as a whole and go “Oh, something was going on. Disregard this problem for now.” For instance, backbone depeering, while exceptionally rare, can happen which will destroy connectivity between large swaths of people. This isn’t an unknown event. More common (but not by much), a large link in a metro area gets accidentally cut, creating routing issues for a few hours, making everything slow. Again, it can be ignored as “a violation of net neutrality.” If, however, 10,000 people on comcast’s network from around the country report that Netflix is suddenly buffering every 10 seconds when it used to work flawlessly - that makes it readily apparent. Especially if there’s no mass event that causes havoc across the internet as a whole. > [@Deeg](#): > > What’s your background? And give me a specific reason you think I’m wrong. I’m a software engineer and have worked for multiple web companies, some large. I have a pretty good idea what happens on both ends. You’ll have to give me more than just “you’re wrong”. > > This makes me think you don’t understand the problem. What about the situation where Comcast’s servers are better and thus faster? Having a “faster server” that “makes it better” is giving too much credit to the hardware that’s simply storing and serving data files. That’s absolutely a problem in the small scale. Once you have the hardware to serve the large scale with redundancy (like Hulu, Netflix, YouTube, etc all have), that is all but eliminated. Congestion is far more of an issue than server hardware. If you have a better connection, yes it can be faster. But that’s only to a point and usually affects the number of concurrent users and not any given users’s experience. The server simply denies additional connections, it doesn’t go “Well, my bandwidth is used up! Let’s start trying some fancy foot work—oops! Dropped Jimmy’s episode of Spongebob!” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/112 "2014-01-21T18:50:08Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > This is not how the internet works. You can run your tests now and then run them later tonight and get different results. If Netflix is downloading poorly how do you know it’s your ISP? Maybe Netflix is having a problem, or maybe Netflix’s own ISP is having a problem, or maybe there’s a storm that’s knocked out the power to a few routers and Netflix’s traffic is taking more hops. You’d have to keep long-term stats and then prove it was something being done by the local ISP and not something inherent in the internet. Then you have to decide if it’s actually a problem worth solving. What if Comcast’s internal stream servers are a few %'s faster than Netflix’s? What about 10%? 20%? Do you require Comast to explicitly slow down their internal streaming so it doesn’t download faster than Netflix? I think you must have missed this key sentence and phrase in **Farin** ’s post: > [@Farin](#): > > If someone reports to the appropriate government agency that they are having issues with their service, **it’s investigated** and the service provider is fined harshly, if found with wrong doing. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/113 "2014-01-21T19:26:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > What’s your background? And give me a specific reason you think I’m wrong. Electrical engineering, though I’ve been working in geophysics (signal processing) for a few years now. So, my background is a bit on the intersection of the hardware/software, though a bit more on the hardware and protocol level than implementation in software. As for specific reasons, a storm knocking out a few routers in the middle doesn’t affect just Netflix, which is what is (and has been) observed by traffic prioritization. It also affects other traffic, which does register. Also, there’s the slight problem with the assumption that “more hops = slower traffic”, but I’ll let that pass. Netflix’s ISP going down? You think that registers as traffic shaping? This isn’t some hypothetical stuff. Take a look at [this](http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21376597/). That was 7 years ago. Again, it’s not hard for network researchers to determine if traffic shaping is going on and to what extent. > [@Deeg](#): > > This makes me think you don’t understand the problem. What about the situation where Comcast’s servers are better and thus faster? And this is why I’m not sure if _you_ understand the problem. For traffic going through Comcast’s servers, which is provided faster? Netflix? Hulu? Amazon? That can and has been measured by the end user. It’s not about traffic being routed a billion different ways but traffic coming through the same hardware being treated preferentially based on the source. At this point, just reply to **Farin** ’s posts. There’s been a lot of good information posted that you haven’t fully addressed. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/114 "2014-01-29T11:51:08Z")
FYI, there’s a petition about this [on the White House petition website.](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-net-neutrality-directing-fcc-classify-internet-providers-common-carriers/5CWS1M4P) (It was called on Tumblr “the only hope we have of changing this,” but I’m a little skeptical that it’s truly the _only_ way, or that anything will be done even if it does get enough signatures, or that nothing will be done if it doesn’t.) Extra thoughts: if the ISPs do react the way that is feared, what do you think would happen if the big Internet media companies decided to publicize these demands (both on- and offline, of course)? How totally do you think the companies would (and would be able to) control content like news? Would a Republican CEO be able to (and get away with) allowing only Fox news websites to load on his ISP? In the worst case scenario, what happens to all the small personal website hosts? Is the projection that everything besides the major blogging sites just… go away? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/115 "2014-01-29T14:10:12Z")
No. Personally, I very much doubt the average user will even _notice_ any impact on normal websites. It’s the data-intensive stuff like streaming video and music that will be affected. Maybe games, too (are there any MMOs that load game content in real time?) Your text-only Wordpress page will still load in about a second. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/116 "2014-01-29T15:00:00Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > FYI, there’s a petition about this [on the White House petition website.](https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/restore-net-neutrality-directing-fcc-classify-internet-providers-common-carriers/5CWS1M4P) > > (It was called on Tumblr “the only hope we have of changing this,” but I’m a little skeptical that it’s truly the _only_ way, or that anything will be done even if it does get enough signatures, or that nothing will be done if it doesn’t.) > > Extra thoughts: if the ISPs do react the way that is feared, what do you think would happen if the big Internet media companies decided to publicize these demands (both on- and offline, of course)? How totally do you think the companies would (and would be able to) control content like news? Would a Republican CEO be able to (and get away with) allowing only Fox news websites to load on his ISP? In the worst case scenario, what happens to all the small personal website hosts? Is the projection that everything besides the major blogging sites just… go away? Basically what **RNATB** said: They could technically make it so that CNN loads incredibly slowly (severe packing shaping) if you happened to be connected to an ISP that is affiliated with the Fox News Network. But that’s a fairly unlikely event as news isn’t a huge money maker (Despite Fox and CNN’s best efforts). The main concentration of neutrality will be media because Comcast (owned by NBC) and Time Warner (Owner of HBO, Time, Turner Broadcasting, Warner Brothers…and probably others) would be to dampen parts of their competition’s internet. If, for instance, NBC pulls out of Hulu completely Comcast can then start making Hulu use painful on their networks and give you the “option” of getting their cable box (or even internet) streaming service for more dollars than Hulu. Other perks might also apply to this “deal.” But it’s only a “deal” because Hulu sucks when using the Comcast internet service. That’s where the worry of net neutrality being tossed aside comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/117 "2014-02-01T09:18:53Z")
So what about the below? I’m pretty sure most of it is just trying to get people to sign the petition, but just curious. > [@Some Tumblr poster](#): > > That’s it! I’m fucking tired of screaming “REMEMBER RICHARD O’DWYER”! You know who I’m gonna post now? > > This is Sumner Redstone. SUMNER FUCKING REDSTONE, the owner of this wonderful company called… [Viacom!] > > THE BIGGEST FUCKING OMNI-CONGLOMERATE OF THE MEDIA INDUSTRY! They own… EVERYTHING! They own pretty much all the industry, but what they’ve YET to own is the internet! And they are very close to owning it all, and we will have to say goodbye to everything. That means: > > NO MORE WIKIPEDIA > NO MORE YOUTUBE > NO MORE TUMBLR > NO MORE FACEBOOK > NO MORE REDDIT > NO MORE INTERNET FREEDOM > > Do you people realize the importance of this petition? If you do, sign it! If you don’t, then think about this: Sumner Redstone and his goons at CNET _which is owned by Viacom_ deliberately and frivilously distributed file sharing software from 1998 to now. These names include Napster, Kazaa, iMesh, Limewire, Bearshare, WinMX, Frostwire, BitTorrent, uTorrent, JUST TO NAME A FEW! These P2P file sharing systems came bundled with viruses and trojans which were used to gather your IP addresses, your name, your location, and so much more! Ever wonder why you got a threatening letter from the RIAA or MPAA? VIACOM TIPPED THEM OFF WITHOUT YOU EVEN KNOWING IT! > > Well, not anymore! SIGN THIS PETITION AND MAKE IT KNOWN TO THE FCC: VIACOM CAN NOT AND WILL NOT CONTROL THE INTERNET AND FORCE US TO ABIDE BY THEIR RULES! THEY CAN PAY OFF AT&T/COMCAST, VERIZON, AND ALL THE OTHERS WITH TRILLIONS, BUT WE ARE THEIR CUSTOMERS, AND WE WON’T STAND FOR BAD BUSINESS LIKE THIS! ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/118 "2014-02-01T12:56:54Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So what about the below? I’m pretty sure most of it is just trying to get people to sign the petition, but just curious. There is so much wrong with that post, it’s not even funny. Most special of all is > [@Tumblr Guy](#): > > These P2P file sharing systems came bundled with viruses and trojans which were used to gather your IP addresses, your name, your location, and so much more! Ever wonder why you got a threatening letter from the RIAA or MPAA? VIACOM TIPPED THEM OFF WITHOUT YOU EVEN KNOWING IT! While CNet’s download service did offer pretty much any software package you wanted, they were also one of the first to scan said files for viruses. The methods used by RIAA and MPAA to harvest that information weren’t viruses distributed with the program, it was just an IP address. They would then send a note to your service provider saying “xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx at 2:42pm on Tuesday January 2 was found hosting/download the copyrighted materials listed below.” and then your ISP would match the user to the IP address and send you a letter. P2P file sharing apps are fun and all, but they aren’t anonymous, no matter what people think or say. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/119 "2014-02-05T18:35:39Z")
[Apparently, it’s begun.](http://davesblog.com/blog/2014/02/05/verizon-using-recent-net-neutrality-victory-to-wage-war-against-netflix/) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801/120 "2014-02-05T19:08:21Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > [Apparently, it’s begun.](http://davesblog.com/blog/2014/02/05/verizon-using-recent-net-neutrality-victory-to-wage-war-against-netflix/) That’s already been debunked: [Verizon: Us throttling AWS and Netflix? Not likely • The Register](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/05/verizon_throttle_denial/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/court-strikes-down-net-neutrality-whos-on-the-side-of-the-angels-here/678801.md?page=7)