# Courthouse won't give my bail back. What do I do? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270 "2011-03-28T15:54:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/21 "2011-03-28T18:00:55Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Revoking his bail is not being a hardass. Your “friend”(:dubious::rolleyes:) is guilty of bail jumping (not obeying terms of release is considered bail jumping in most jurisdictions). Locking his ass back up was a totally appropriate decision. > > Sorry, but this is not bullshit. Both ethically and under the law they are not allowed to give you legal advice. > I know my post is harsh, but please consider what is happening to you as an important life lesson. Your so called friend is an idiot, an asshole, and a substance abuser. Posting his bail is the equivalent to betting on a 3 legged horse in the Kentucky Derby. If you do manage to get your money back cut ties with this psychic vampire and don’t so much as give him change for a parking meter. I don’t think you understand the meaning of friend. If a friend comes to you and he’s in trouble then you help him out. He might be a dumb asshole, a substance abuser, whatever, but (as long as he hasn’t abused the friendship in the past, when all bets are off) friendship means you don’t judge him, you help him. You treat him exactly as you’d wish a friend to treat you if you were in difficulties. As it turned out, the guy didn’t deserve a friend like the OP (and I’m sure he’s no longer a friend) but those are the risks you take with friendship. I hope the OP gets his $500 back. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/22 "2011-03-28T18:03:06Z")
Hmmm… first I’ve heard about losing bail if the behaviour conditions are not followed. I’ve learned my one new thing for the day. There was a case in Toronto in the late 60’s or early 70’s, where a shady businessman was arrested and skipped bail in a case that also involved someone planting a bomb under his bed. Apparently his parents put up their house as bail. When he was finally captured in Portugal a year or more later, the crown also moved to seize the parents’ house. In the newspaper, the parents complained about the authorities seizing their house. “We thought this sort of thing only happened in Nazi Germany!” The Toronto Star opined that maybe the parents should have pick a better person to bail. Yes, the court does not care who put up the bail. Essentially, you are lending your buddy the money, and he is putting it up as a bond. If he screws up, he loses it and (probably) can’t pay you back. The only difference is (IANAL) that the court recognizes that (a) if the guy’s sitting in jail, you have to hand the money directly to the court, because he can’t and (b) when it’s time to refund the bond, it’s a good idea to give it directly back to the person who put it up; rather than handing an (ex-)prisoner a chunk of cash. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/23 "2011-03-28T18:08:06Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Can we get some absolute authoritative certification on bail being forfeited in the case of misbehavior vs flight? Ask and ye shall receive (Offer good on alternate Mondays when the moon is in the waning crescent): > [@](#): > > Forfeiture of bond and revocation of release on breach of condition–Warrant for arrest. Upon a showing that there has been a **material breach of a condition of release without good cause** , the court shall declare a forfeiture of the bond, if any, and shall enter an order revoking the conditions of release. If the defendant is not in custody, the court shall direct the clerk to issue a warrant for the defendant’s arrest. The defendant shall remain in custody until discharged by due course of law. South Dakota Codified Laws, 23A-43-21. (emphasis added). As I read it, _any_ breach of _any_ condition of bail, forfeits the bail and results in re-incarceration of the one bailed. There is some hope, however, for our OP: > [@](#): > > Setting aside forfeiture of bail. A court may direct that a forfeiture be set aside, upon such conditions as it may impose, if it appears that justice does not require enforcement of the forfeiture. South Dakota Codified Laws, 23A-43-22. This is probably the reason that the court personnel advised the OP to file a motion to request his money back. The county court may have a form for this type of motion. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/24 "2011-03-28T18:10:21Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I don’t think you understand the meaning of friend. If a friend comes to you and he’s in trouble then you help him out. Well, there are situations (like a 3rd DUI) where helping a friend out might just mean letting him sit in a cell. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/25 "2011-03-28T18:10:50Z")
What were the details to bailing him out? Did you supply the money and he promised to the conditions or did you sign a guarrantor agreement to the conditions. If it was the former, he owes you the money, for the latter, you are probably out $500. ---
**Author:** ![kwc27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kwc27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwc27)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/26 "2011-03-28T18:16:36Z")
> [@MikeG](#): > > So the friend is in jail and cost you $500? I’d be at his place getting $500 worth of goods. I wish. > [@enigmatic](#): > > Just out of interest though, did you know that he was still driving? He told me he was getting a ride or walking to the sheriff’s. > [@robert\_columbia](#): > > What does it mean to “be on 24/7”? Is this an electronic monitoring thing? > [@Ludovic](#): > > I dunno, in isolation, the phrase “24/7 and blow” sounds like it’s referring to a whole other type of substance abuse… The 24/7 I’m referring to means he had to do a breathalizer twice a day to ensure that he was sober. I don’t know guys, this is a pisser; of course, in hindsight, it was foolish to bail him out. But I’ve been down his road myself. I’ve been sober for over a year, my fines were paid immediately and the little bit of time I was in jail has been served. My offense was not as severe as his, so I never needed to be bailed out of jail. I’ve been through rehab twice and do AA. I have been told that no matter how many times a person slips up, he or she is always welcome back to the program. I guess I took that philosophy to point in this situation, and it didn’t pan out so well for me. I used to think he was a good kid, but maybe a little dim. His story on the original arrest was that he wasn’t even driving. He got a ride home from the bar in his own car by a guy he barely new. That guy put his car in the ditch and ran away, so my friend was left standing by the car holding his keys. The cops pulled up and charged him. Makes perfect sense, right? No, sounds like bullshit, but his lawyer said if he found the supposed driver, or someone to pretend they were the driver, my friend would be fine. He could be full of shit, but this matter is going to jury trial, so it’s up to them to decide. I guess what I’m looking for is the judge to refund my bail and maybe add the $500 to my friend’s court fines, if he is found guilty. I sent off a simple letter requesting that today, and hopefully it works. If it’s not the proper format, I’ll look into filing a formal motion. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/27 "2011-03-28T18:19:15Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I don’t think you understand the meaning of friend. I don’t think you read the OP. He said he wasn’t a very close friend to start off with. Also, your definition of friend is almost identical to the definitions of “sap”, “chump”, etc.. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/28 "2011-03-28T18:26:43Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > I guess what I’m looking for is the judge to refund my bail and maybe add the $500 to my friend’s court fines, if he is found guilty. I sent off a simple letter requesting that today, and hopefully it works. If it’s not the proper format, I’ll look into filing a formal motion. Why would they do that? They’ve already got your $500. They might consider refunding your $500 if your _friend_ pays it to them. In that case you should try and collect it directly from your _friend_. Since that’s what your asking the municipality to do. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/29 "2011-03-28T18:29:17Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > I used to think he was a good kid, but maybe a little dim. His story on the original arrest was that he wasn’t even driving. He got a ride home from the bar in his own car by a guy he barely new. That guy put his car in the ditch and ran away, so my friend was left standing by the car holding his keys. The cops pulled up and charged him. Makes perfect sense, right? No, sounds like bullshit, but his lawyer said if he found the supposed driver, **or someone to pretend they were the driver** , my friend would be fine. He could be full of shit, but this matter is going to jury trial, so it’s up to them to decide. (my bolding) If he refunds your money, but then asks you to be the pretend “other driver”, you should probably decline. I very much doubt his lawyer actually told him to find someone else to take the fall for him. ---
**Author:** ![kwc27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kwc27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwc27)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/30 "2011-03-28T18:32:52Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Why would they do that? They’ve already got your $500. > > They might consider refunding your $500 if your _friend_ pays it to them. In that case you should try and collect it directly from your _friend_. Since that’s what your asking the municipality to do. But my “friend” is in jail. I would assume them refunding me would be a substitute for me taking him to small claims court. Either way it’s like the court is making sure I get the money. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/31 "2011-03-28T18:35:28Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > I guess what I’m looking for is the judge to refund my bail and maybe add the $500 to my friend’s court fines, if he is found guilty. I sent off a simple letter requesting that today, and hopefully it works. If it’s not the proper format, I’ll look into filing a formal motion. I am not quite sure why you think the courts will help you collect your debt by adding his debt to you to the fines? How would they justify this? “Misc repayment of loan”? If the bail has been revoked, than your ex friend owes you the money and I wouldn’t count on the courts helping you collect unless you file in small claims court. ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/32 "2011-03-28T18:37:22Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > But my “friend” is in jail. I would assume them refunding me would be a substitute for me taking him to small claims court. Either way it’s like the court is making sure I get the money. Right? The court doesn’t care about you getting your money. They care about them getting their money which they have. Even if you win in small claims court, you don’t seem likely to collect from this guy anyway. May want to just write it off as others have said. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/33 "2011-03-28T18:44:03Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > . . . > His story on the original arrest was that he wasn’t even driving. He got a ride home from the bar in his own car by a guy he barely new. That guy put his car in the ditch and ran away, so my friend was left standing by the car holding his keys. The cops pulled up and charged him. Makes perfect sense, right? No, sounds like bullshit, but his lawyer said if he found the supposed driver, **or someone to pretend they were the driver, my friend would be fine.** He could be full of shit, but this matter is going to jury trial, so it’s up to them to decide. > > . . . So his lawyer suggested he find some poor sap to claim under oath that they were the reckless driver who put a car into the ditch, then fled the scene of the accident leaving the keys in the hands of a person too drunk to drive? And what would that person then be charged with? Hmmmm. I’m guessing you’ve got yourself a seasoned liar there. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/34 "2011-03-28T18:44:34Z")
**kwc** , trying to give another person a chance like that is a great thing…IF the other person has demonstrated that they’re trying to work the 12 Steps themselves, or otherwise trying to get clean and actually SHOWING it in their life. Otherwise, it’s kind of foolish to assume that everyone follows the same principles you do and, worse, put money on that assumption. ETA: Did his _lawyer_ actually tell you that finding someone to pretend to be this elusive driver would put your friend in the clear, or did your friend tell you his lawyer said that? Because, if the former, that’s one lawyer that needs to be invited to an intimate meeting of whatever body decides legal ethics breaches in his locality. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/35 "2011-03-28T18:55:04Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > But my “friend” is in jail. I would assume them refunding me would be a substitute for me taking him to small claims court. Either way it’s like the court is making sure I get the money. Right? Why should court care if you collect from your _friend_? ---
**Author:** ![kwc27](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ccd318/32.png) [@kwc27](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwc27)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/36 "2011-03-28T19:12:43Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > ETA: Did his _lawyer_ actually tell you that finding someone to pretend to be this elusive driver would put your friend in the clear, or did your friend tell you his lawyer said that? Because, if the former, that’s one lawyer that needs to be invited to an intimate meeting of whatever body decides legal ethics breaches in his locality. No. Of course his lawyer never said to find someone to take the rap. That is something I assumed he would have to do if he actually was the driver. I’m going to note that in no way am I condoning such a deal, as that would be grounds for perjury I suppose, wouldn’t it? It’s up to the accused to make any deal he wants. If he is telling the truth then he might get out of it. If he’s lieing, which most people think he is, then he’s fulked, which he deserves to be. I don’t care what happens to him anymore, I’m just worried about my money. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/37 "2011-03-28T19:14:06Z")
> [@kwc27](#): > > I used to think he was a good kid, but maybe a little dim. His story on the original arrest was that he wasn’t even driving. He got a ride home from the bar in his own car by a guy he barely new. That guy put his car in the ditch and ran away, so my friend was left standing by the car holding his keys. The cops pulled up and charged him. Makes perfect sense, right? No, sounds like bullshit, but his lawyer said if he found the supposed driver,\*\* or someone to pretend they were the driver\*\*, my friend would be fine. He could be full of shit, but this matter is going to jury trial, so it’s up to them to decide. You should report your friend’s lawyer to your state’s bar association. That’s subornation of perjury, and is a serious crime. (Assuming that your “friend” is telling the truth. Which I doubt.) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/38 "2011-03-28T19:14:31Z")
never mind. Joke already posted ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/39 "2011-03-28T19:14:38Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Did his _lawyer_ actually tell you that finding someone to pretend to be this elusive driver would put your friend in the clear, or did your friend tell you his lawyer said that? Because, if the former, that’s one lawyer that needs to be invited to an intimate meeting of whatever body decides legal ethics breaches in his locality. My guess is that the lawyer said something like, “So, your story is that another driver crashed the car and left you holding the keys. It would be helpful if you could tell me who this other driver might be.” ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270/40 "2011-03-28T19:19:58Z")
Go to the main branch of your city’s library. Ask the librarians to help you research your problem. I can almost guarantee that the proper format for the motion, as well as a brief explanation can be found in a huge reference book on judicial proceedings or state law or something. It’s there, you just have to find it. The librarians can help. I speak from experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courthouse-wont-give-my-bail-back-what-do-i-do/576270.md?page=3)