# Courtney Love killed Kurt Cobain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 22, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247 "2011-09-22T20:47:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/1 "2011-09-22T20:47:00Z")
Whenever Courtney Love comes up in conversation, inevibably someone makes the accusation that she killed Kurt Cobain. What’s up with that? Cobain was found having shot himself in the head with a shotgun, after sneaking away from rehab and disappearing for a . He also had been using drugs. He left a note. I don’t think anyone is asserting she pulled the trigger. The implication seems to be that she drove him to it. But all indications are that Kurt Cobain was a moody, depressive, fucked-up guy long before he met Love. His childhood was characterized by the divorce of his parents, driving him to emotional acting out including bullying, and eventually being placed in foster care with family friends. His music was dark and moody. His first album, _Bleach_, was mostly written when he was angry and just screaming out negative lyrics just to spout off. > [@](#): > > Cobain told _[Spin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spin_(magazine))_ in 1993 that on _Bleach_ he “didn’t give a flying fuck what the lyrics were about”, and claimed that 80 percent of the lyrics were written the night before recording.[[17]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach_(album)#cite_note-smashing-16) He was often still working on the words on the drive to the recording studio.[[8]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach_(album)#cite_note-Azerrad91-7) He explained: “It was like I’m pissed off. Don’t know what about. Let’s just scream negative lyrics, and as long as they’re not sexist and don’t get too embarrassing it’ll be okay. I don’t hold any of those lyrics dear to me.”[[17]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach_(album)#cite_note-smashing-16) Many of his songs drew on his own experiences and moods. Cobain was unhappy with the media attention he received, and wasn’t thrilled with the first album because it was more directed by the studio wanting the “grunge style”. > [@](#): > > According to Cobain, the music on _Bleach_ conformed with the [grunge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grunge) genre Sub Pop heavily endorsed. “There was this pressure from Sub Pop and the grunge scene to play ‘rock music’”, Cobain said, and noted that he stripped it “down and [made] it sound like [Aerosmith](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosmith).” Cobain also felt he had to fit the expectations of the grunge sound to build a fanbase, and hence suppressed his arty and pop songwriting traits while crafting the record.[[12]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach_(album)#cite_note-Az_102-11) Some of his songs reference other relationships, including his prior relationship with Tobi Vail. > [@](#): > > Cobain originally wanted _Nevermind_ to be divided into two sides: a “Boy” side, for the songs written about the experiences of his early life and childhood, and a “Girl” side, for the songs written about his dysfunctional relationship with Tobi Vail.[[53]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain#cite_note-Cross_2001.2C_pg._177-52) Charles R. Cross would write “In the four months following their break-up, Kurt would write a half dozen of his most memorable songs, all of them about Tobi Vail”. Though “Lithium” had been written before Cobain knew Vail, the lyrics of the song were changed to reference her.[[55]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain#cite_note-54) Cobain would say in an interview with _[Musician](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musician_(magazine))_ that “some of my very personal experiences, like breaking up with girlfriends and having bad relationships, feeling that death void that the person in the song is feeling. Very lonely, sick.”[[56]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain#cite_note-55) Nirvana band member David Grohl claims he always expected Cobain to die young. > [@](#): > > “There are some people that you meet in life that you just know that they are not going to live to be a 100 years old,” he explained. “In some ways, you kind of prepare yourself emotionally for that to be a reality.” > **[Dave Grohl: 'I knew Kurt Cobain was destined to die early'](https://www.nme.com/news/music/nirvana-163-1310748)** > > Ex-Nirvana drummer says he had a feeling about frontman So my question is, with all this other material going on and all these other justifications, why the hate for Courtney Love? Is there something specific that I don’t know about - her being abusive or something? Or is it more just jumping to the conclusion it is her fault because she was the one he was married to when he killed himself? I know she’s something of a loud and divisive personality, and the drug abuse on both their parts didn’t help. I know she comes off as a skank whore to a lot of people. According to Wiki, some people think she is a groupie who glommed on to Kurt to milk him for publicity for her own musical career advancement. Which she denies - her band, Hole, actually sold more copies of their first album than Nirvana had of _Bleach_ when they met. Kinda hard for her to be milking him for fame when she’s got just as much, if not more, at the time. So, is there a stronger justification for that claim? Or are these folk just haters? * * * I thought about asking in GQ, because I’m more interested in “is there some reason I don’t know about?”, but I realize it’s probably ultimately an opinion question, not about facts, but about interpretations of facts. So I’m asking in IMHO, because this is not about the music, it’s about the circumstances of their relationship and people’s perceptions and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/2 "2011-09-22T21:04:16Z")
Back when it happened, I remember hearing lots of stories that Cobain & Love had a suicide pact, and she backed out after he killed himself. There’s a small [grain of truth](http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1994-11-30/news/9411300142_1_tipper-gore-kurt-cobain-courtney-love) to that, even though it happened more than a year before his suicide. But there was definitely the feeling that had she not agreed to kill herself as well, he wouldn’t have done so. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/3 "2011-09-22T22:19:49Z")
You have to see the movie “Kurt & Courtney”. It doesn’t say that she was responsible but it does paint her as an evil manipulator. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/4 "2011-09-22T22:25:16Z")
This is about as credible as Yoko Ono breaking up the Beatles. Find a woman to blame it on. ---
**Author:** ![Laggard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de053/32.png) [@Laggard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laggard)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/5 "2011-09-22T23:31:45Z")
It’s usually people who worshiped Kurt and can not possibly believe that their idol offed himself. ---
**Author:** ![Ibanez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a4c791/32.png) [@Ibanez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibanez)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/6 "2011-09-23T21:59:31Z")
I was in the “Was Kurt Cobain murdered ?” for awhile camp. Out of everything that is mentioned by the _was Kurt Cobain murdered crowd_ probably the biggest fact they seem to place their bets on is a study put forward involving a couple of thousand suicides where heroin and a weapon was used, and apparently none of the people involved had the fatal level of heroin that Kurt had. Implying he would of been unconcious in seconds and unable to put his heroin kit away and use the shotgun. Courtney does come across as sketchy but Kurts references to suicide, depression and rampant drug use is also well documented. I use to say just because someone is suicidal doesn’t mean they can’t be murdered. But now I think Kurt just used alot of heroin and his system got used to it and checked out. Occam’s razor. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/7 "2011-09-23T23:24:58Z")
Moving thread from IMHO to Cafe Society. Hope that doesn’t kill it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/8 "2011-09-24T00:05:07Z")
What’s Love Got to Do With It? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/9 "2011-09-24T00:09:16Z")
I saw a ‘documentary’ on this some years back. The filmmaker was trying to show that Love had him killed. I went to see it, mainly because I wanted to see her nailed to wall. The director dropped the ball. She came out smelling like a rose, which I didn’t think was possible. All his ‘evidence’ did not stand up to scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/10 "2011-09-24T02:27:41Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Whenever Courtney Love comes up in conversation, inevibably someone makes the accusation that she killed Kurt Cobain. What’s up with that? > \The implication seems to be that she drove him to it. You may be taking things too seriously. In my experience, whenever Courtney Love comes up in conversation someone makes a _joke_ about how she drove Kurt Cobain to suicide – the implication being that she’s so unattractive/obnoxious/crazy that death would be preferable to being married to her. There definitely are people who believe that Love had Cobain murdered, but I don’t think this is such a widely believed conspiracy theory that you should be hearing about it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/11 "2011-09-24T03:08:39Z")
> [@Ibanez](#): > > But now I think Kurt just used alot of heroin and his system got used to it and checked out. I think this played a big part in it. His drug use has dug the hole (no pun intended) so deep that his highs could no longer get him out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/12 "2011-09-24T03:21:44Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > This is about as credible as Yoko Ono breaking up the Beatles. Find a woman to blame it on. To be fair, the “Courtney Love murdered Kurt Cobain” urban myth basically supplanted the long-running “Janis Joplin was murdered” myth. I suspect within a few years, Cobain’s “murder” will likewise be forgotten and replaced in turn about a myth how Michael Jackson was murdered by Jermaine & Tito. To be quite frank, Courtney is such a pathetic, boozed-up, drug-addled mess that she can barely be counted on to string two words together let alone plot & get away with murder. She simply would not have the brains or the wherewithal to go through with it. That, and the fact that Kurt was (and pretty much still is) the cash cow that keeps her afloat. Why would she want to off him when he could still produce more profitable merchandise to keep the gravy train running? Her “career” would certainly never have lasted as long as it did if she had to rely on her own “talents” to support herself. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/13 "2011-09-24T05:07:20Z")
I paid no attention to grunge, and don’t care for the music of Nirvana or Courtney Love. But she does have some level of talent. She was a decent actress in [_The People vs. Larry Flynt_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117318/) and [her speech to the Digital Hollywood Online Entertainment Conference](http://www.gerryhemingway.com/piracy.html) proved, to me at least, that when she’s not fucked up, she has a pretty decent brain. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/14 "2011-09-24T07:08:35Z")
Look up El Duce and Allen Wrench’s names in conjunction with the whole “Courtney killed Kurt” bs. I don’t think it stands up to scrutiny, but there are some interesting theories behind it. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/15 "2011-09-24T07:30:16Z")
The “Kurt was murdered” crowd are exactly the same people who think the WTC was a controlled demolition and that the moon landings were faked. Some people are just suckers for conspiracy theories. The fact that none of those theories makes any sense to anyone with any critical thinking ability doesn’t matter in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/16 "2011-09-24T07:30:17Z")
Courtney has her [own biography, cowritten with Poppy Z. Brite.](http://www.amazon.com/Courtney-Love-Poppy-Z-Brite/product-reviews/0684848007/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1) I found it a fascinating read. Nothing about the info in there suggests she pushed him over any edge. Yes, if she had been a stable, level headed, psychologically savvy woman, she might, just might have prevented Cobain’s suicide at that particular time. But if she had been, he would never have married her. She was the female version of him. But it all boils down to this: he was in pain, (mostly psysical pain, I read in the biography. He had crippling abdominal pains). he had a baby daughter. Rather then seeking real effective professional help, he self medicated with heroin, and when that didn’t help anymore, he shot himself and left his wife and baby without a husband and father. She was as troubled as he was. Yet, despite her troubles, and the added misery of missing her husband and being widely hated by his fans after his death, _she is the one who kept on going_ and raised their daughter to the best of her ability. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/17 "2011-09-24T07:34:18Z")
> [@Don\_Draper](#): > > To be quite frank, Courtney is such a pathetic, boozed-up, drug-addled mess that she can barely be counted on to string two words together let alone plot & get away with murder. She seems pretty eloquent and insightful when [speaking about the economics of the music industry](http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2000/06/14/love). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/18 "2011-09-24T15:32:06Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I paid no attention to grunge, and don’t care for the music of Nirvana or Courtney Love. > > But she does have some level of talent. She was a decent actress in [_The People vs. Larry Flynt_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117318/) and [her speech to the Digital Hollywood Online Entertainment Conference](http://www.gerryhemingway.com/piracy.html) proved, to me at least, that when she’s not fucked up, she has a pretty decent brain. That speech pretty much changed my mind completely about how much money recording artists actually make from their music. (It’s the same speech as in the [salon.com](http://salon.com) article). She is clearly not all that stupid, but neither was Cobain. The only people I’ve heard (way back when Cobain originally died) suspect Love of making Cobain die either directly or indirectly were women. Young women, mostly. She just wasn’t good enough for him, whereas said teenage conspiracy theorist might well have been. ---
**Author:** ![sco3tt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@sco3tt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sco3tt)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/19 "2011-09-24T18:26:40Z")
Yeah, but… didn’t he swear that he didn’t have a gun? Married, buried. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247/20 "2011-09-24T19:57:41Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > She seems pretty eloquent and insightful when [speaking about the economics of the music industry](http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2000/06/14/love). Two words: “ghost” “writer”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtney-love-killed-kurt-cobain/597247.md?page=2)