# Courtroom 101: things defendants shouldn't do **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 6, 2013, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453 "2013-02-06T03:49:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/61 "2013-02-08T05:28:29Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Serious question: Why the FUCK should people go to jail for being impolite?? > > This is just reason 1,000,001 why our justice system is wasteful, crooked, unfair and ineffective. How well would the justice system work if there were no penalty for poor behavior in court? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/62 "2013-02-08T06:03:46Z")
Exactly. If everyone was allowed to act out in court without repercussion the system would grind to a halt. If I have a legitimate grievance I need the court to hear, I expect it to be heard on a reasonable notice, not to be told again and again that I’ll have to come back another day because someone decided to take a dump on the judge’s bench and that court is once again closed for the day for cleaning because no one was allowed to slap down the precious little snowflake while he made his “point”. When you are contemptuous of the court, you are contemptuous of every single person in that court; you violate the rights of every one present as well as those in the wings waiting to have their day in court who now must be inconvenienced by you acting like a selfish asshole. If I was waiting to have a bail hearing and court ran long because of your selfishness, causing me to spend even one more night in jail I would be pissed as fuck at your stupid ass. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/63 "2013-02-08T06:09:59Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Exactly. > > If everyone was allowed to act out in court without repercussion the system would grind to a halt. If I have a legitimate grievance I need the court to hear, I expect it to be heard on a reasonable notice, not to be told again and again that I’ll have to come back another day because someone decided to take a dump on the judge’s bench and that court is once again closed for the day for cleaning because no one was allowed to slap down the precious little snowflake while he made his “point”. > > When you are contemptuous of the court, you are contemptuous of every single person in that court; you violate the rights of every one present as well as those in the wings waiting to have their day in court who now must be inconvenienced by you acting like a selfish asshole. If I was waiting to have a bail hearing and court ran long because of your selfishness, causing me to spend even one more night in jail I would be pissed as fuck at your stupid ass. She said adios. Then she said fuck you. Not anything like taking a dump on the bench. Judge Thinskin was the one that made other people wait, not her. What are you planning to get run in for? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/64 "2013-02-08T06:47:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > She said adios. Then she said fuck you. Not anything like taking a dump on the bench. Judge Thinskin was the one that made other people wait, not her. You do realize that the judge has to maintain control over the courtroom, right? If you allow some outburst, insults, and interruptions then where do you set the line? Once you lose control it’s very difficult to get it back. > [@TriPolar](#): > > What are you planning to get run in for? If you can’t see that what I gave was an example of how the inconsiderate behavior of one person has consequences for others, then I really don’t know just how low I need to go in this discourse to get to a level you can comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/65 "2013-02-08T06:53:05Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You do realize that the judge has to maintain control over the courtroom, right? > If you allow some outburst, insults, and interruptions then where do you set the line? Once you lose control it’s very difficult to get it back. > > If you can’t see that what I gave was an example of how the inconsiderate behavior of one person has consequences for others, then I really don’t know just how low I need to go in this discourse to get to a level you can comprehend. When someone says “good-bye” to you, do you think it’s polite to simply walk away without saying anything? So far, I haven’t seen anyone argue or even hint that the “fuck you” (or “fuck off”; whichever she said) and the bird-flipping weren’t out of line. But as of now, only one person has made a claim that “adios” was out of line, and frankly, my viewing of the video doesn’t comport with the explanation given. Can you explain what you thought was wrong with her reply to the judge saying “bye-bye”, preferably without being condescending or implying that my (or anyone else’s) intelligence, social skills or anything else is lacking? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/66 "2013-02-08T07:09:12Z")
Well let’s just be clear here for a second… I said: > [@zoid](#): > > If I was waiting to have a bail hearing and court ran long because of your selfishness, causing me to spend even one more night in jail I would be pissed as fuck at your stupid ass. To which TriPolar responded: > [@TriPolar](#): > > What are you planning to get run in for? That was what I took offense to. I believe it was clear that I was pointing out that a person’s behavior has consequences for other people. Anyway in regard to the “Adios” comment… As I said before: > [@zoid](#): > > It’s flippant. If she said “Caio” I would expect him to be pissed as well. You may not agree with the reaction but this is a judge, it’s not one of your friends and comportment counts. The only way the judge can maintain control of the court is to demand a certain decorum. If you violate that decorum you are subject to penalty. We may very well have a difference of opinion here but I believe this is necessary for the court to function. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/67 "2013-02-08T10:21:00Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You do realize that the judge has to maintain control over the courtroom, right? > If you allow some outburst, insults, and interruptions then where do you set the line? Once you lose control it’s very difficult to get it back. There was no outburst or interruption by the defendant. Insults are impolite. Big deal. Get over it. > [@](#): > > If you can’t see that what I gave was an example of how the inconsiderate behavior of one person has consequences for others, then I really don’t know just how low I need to go in this discourse to get to a level you can comprehend. I know what you meant. And once again, it was Judge Stickuphisass who created the consequences for others. The girl was walking away. > [@zoid](#): > > That was what I took offense to. I believe it was clear that I was pointing out that a person’s behavior has consequences for other people. This person’s behavior had no consequences for other people. Your reasoning is unsound. > [@](#): > > You may not agree with the reaction but this is a judge, it’s not one of your friends and comportment counts. The only way the judge can maintain control of the court is to demand a certain decorum. If you violate that decorum you are subject to penalty. > We may very well have a difference of opinion here but I believe this is necessary for the court to function. The judge has bailiffs to maintain control if anyone does anything which actually disrupts the courtroom, which didn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/68 "2013-02-08T11:19:26Z")
Native Spanish speaker here, and I agree with the opinion that her behaviour (taken as a whole) was flippant and disrespectful. And I also think that her “adios” was out of line. Her tone and attitude while saying “adios” struck me as extremely mocking and insulting. Maybe people who don’t have Spanish as their native language don’t feel it, but I (at least) felt it. Given that (as I understand it) the judge is also a native Spanish speaker, I am not surprised that he very probably felt like I did watching the video. It also probably has to do with how, being raised in a certain type of culture, we end up interpreting body language and intonation. As I said before – her body language and intonation while saying that “adios” was (to me) definitely mocking. VERY mocking. I have the impression that, had she been in court in Spain, even though the procedure would have been in Spanish, if she said that kind of “adios” she would have been slapped with a similar penalty. So, to sum up – I don’t think that the judge was being an asshole when he doubled her bail after that “adios”. It is not what she said, it’s how she said it. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/69 "2013-02-08T13:38:37Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > How well would the justice system work if there were no penalty for poor behavior in court? Just fine, if impoliteness is the extent of the poor behavior. It’s not like she ran amok, flipping over chairs and punching people. She just didn’t kiss the judge’s ass. Get used to it, your honor, you’re not having tea with your grandma, you’re punishing criminals. Have some objectivity. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/70 "2013-02-08T13:59:01Z")
Look, everyone: it is clear that some people in this thread think that the girl’s behavior was outrageous, and others aren’t seeing it. You disagree, and this is fine. Just because someone disagrees with you that doesn’t inherently mean that they’re insulting you, but a lot of the posts have been needlessly dismissive of others’ point of view. So stop with the “you’re crazy if you think this” line of posting, capiche? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/71 "2013-02-08T14:20:18Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > … capiche? Ohh, fighting words. Foreign, too, and disrespectful. 30 days! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/72 "2013-02-08T14:51:27Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > You may not agree with the reaction but this is a judge, it’s not one of your friends and comportment counts. The only way the judge can maintain control of the court is to demand a certain decorum. If you violate that decorum you are subject to penalty. > We may very well have a difference of opinion here but I believe this is necessary for the court to function. I fully agree that the judge needs to maintain decorum, and that violating that decorum should be subject to a penalty. But I do differ with your characterization of her saying “adios” as flippant. Again I would ask you: When someone says “good-bye” to you, do you think it’s polite to simply walk away without saying anything? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/73 "2013-02-08T15:21:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Again I would ask you: When someone says “good-bye” to you, do you think it’s polite to simply walk away without saying anything? If she had walked away without saying anything, the rest of it would not have happened. So yes, it would have been much more polite for her to walk away without saying anything. When she gave him the finger, she wasn’t acting any differently than she was during the rest of her appearance in court. She thought she could sass a judge. She was mistaken. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/74 "2013-02-08T15:33:13Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I fully agree that the judge needs to maintain decorum, and that violating that decorum should be subject to a penalty. > > But I do differ with your characterization of her saying “adios” as flippant. > > Again I would ask you: When someone says “good-bye” to you, do you think it’s polite to simply walk away without saying anything? **Bo** , have you read the post above by **JoseB**? Doesn’t a Spanish-speaker’s opinion on the tone of what she said carry any weight for you? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/75 "2013-02-08T15:34:55Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > If you arrest someone for a drug offense and throw them in front of a judge you don’t get to bitch about them being high. You do however get to hold them accountable for their behavior, without “but I was high!” being an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/76 "2013-02-08T15:40:45Z")
Will the 30 days in jail go on her permanent record? In the Netherlands, having a record is a big deal. You can’t get a government job, for instance. (or so I heard, anyway). Will these 30 days be an obstacle for this woman for the rest of her life? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/77 "2013-02-08T15:48:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I fully agree that the judge needs to maintain decorum, and that violating that decorum should be subject to a penalty. > > But I do differ with your characterization of her saying “adios” as flippant. > > Again I would ask you: When someone says “good-bye” to you, do you think it’s polite to simply walk away without saying anything? I have to agree with you. The first time I saw the video I was surprised at the judge’s reaction to the “adios.” I assumed there must have been something more to it, but the bird-flipping didn’t happen until later (and that, yeah, that’ll get ya contempt.) There may have been a sneer in her voice, there may not have–it just sounded like exasperation/frustration to me. Whatever, move on to the next case. I would think the judge who has to deal with these kinds of people day in and day out would develop more of a backbone and let borderline cases slide. So, yeah, I side on overreaction by the judge, followed by overreaction by the defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/78 "2013-02-08T15:49:25Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Will the 30 days in jail go on her permanent record? In the Netherlands, having a record is a big deal. You can’t get a government job, for instance. (or so I heard, anyway). Will these 30 days be an obstacle for this woman for the rest of her life? She’ll have a conviction for criminal contempt of court on her record. And then there’s also the distinct possibility that she’ll also end up with a conviction for illegal possession of a controlled substance – in this case, a prescription drug. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/79 "2013-02-08T15:50:44Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > **Bo** , have you read the post above by **JoseB**? Doesn’t a Spanish-speaker’s opinion on the tone of what she said carry any weight for you? I’m NOT a native Spanish speaker, but to me, her tone was very dismissive, and certainly contemptuous for the judge and the court in general. I think that she’s used to getting away with being in-your-face all the time, with everyone, and this time it didn’t work for her. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453/80 "2013-02-08T15:55:54Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > develop more of a backbone Wrong idiom. “Thicker skin” is what I meant there. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/courtroom-101-things-defendants-shouldnt-do/649453.md?page=5)